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From "Dennis E. Hamilton" <>
Subject RE: [MENTORS] Third Party source
Date Fri, 08 Jun 2012 17:58:22 GMT
Along with the policy and trustworthiness matters that Sam provides, I can speculate some other
reasons for concern about removing/replacing notices (of any kind) --

 * Removal of a copyright notice can be taken as evidence of intentional infringement if not
negligent infringement.

 * Removal of notices is often an indication that someone things relicensing is possible and
valid when that is almost never the case except when done by the copyright holder(s).

 * Preserving the provenance of combined/derivative works is extremely important, not merely
because of the way the ASF chooses to operate in the public interest.  It can be critical
in demonstration that the ASF has been diligent in avoiding infringement and making reasonable
but responsible reliance on the care and diligence of its contributors.

 - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: [] On Behalf Of Sam Ruby
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 09:07
Subject: Re: [MENTORS] Third Party source

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Kalle Korhonen
<> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Roy T. Fielding <> wrote:
>> I fear we are miscommunicating again.
>> Only the copyright owner is allowed to (re)move copyright notices
>> or permit others to (re)move them on the owner's behalf.
> Interesting, why is that? Is it so by the law?

It would be helpful if somebody could point out the actual words in
the copyright headers being discussed.  I may have missed it.

The copyright holder may impose limits on copying.  I have seen
headers that say, in effect, that you are welcome to copy the source
as long as you retain this header intact.

Meanwhile, much of the goodwill the ASF has accumulated over the years
is due to our policy of only accepting voluntary contributions.  We
should not throw that away lightly.

In this case, Adobe isn't hard to reach here.  We should seek their
opinion, and respect it.

If Adobe wishes us to retain the headers, my opinion is that we should
evaluate the impact that such a request will have on the community,
and either follow their request or decline the contribution.

If Adobe collectively takes the time to understand our position and
agrees to moving it, there are a number of ways that this can be
expressed clearly.  I still maintain that having an Adobe employee do
such a move would be the simplest and clearest way, but other ways are
possible too.

> Kalle

- Sam Ruby

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