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From Josh Wills <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Crunch to join the Apache Incubator
Date Sat, 26 May 2012 23:24:04 GMT

On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Jakob Homan <> wrote:
> This isn't about whether or not they will respond appropriately to new
> contributors once they are incubator project.  And it's absolutely not
> whether or not I should be an initial committer (the vote's going on
> already and I'm happy it is).
> Since the team has already stumbled in its first steps, I can't
> imagine it would fail further. I'm sure the whole of the team will
> step up (as part of the community).  And I can't say if I'll
> contribute or not.  I'm perfectly fine with not being on the initial
> team and believe the vote should finish and the proposal be accepted
> (I'll put in a binding +1 shortly).

It has certainly been a...let's go with "brisk," education. :)

Jakob, for whatever it is worth, we would be thrilled to have you, and
Joseph, and anyone else at LinkedIn who is interested join Crunch as
committers. Whatever the Apache Incubator equivalent of rolling out
the red carpet is, that's what we'll do.

> Instead, it's about the Podling's first steps to building a community,
> which were:
> 1) Announcing the would follow the (in my view flawed) approach of S4
> and reject any established members of the Apache community that may
> wish to join during the proposal.
> 2) Announce an exception because one volunteer (Vinod) had a
> particular background that would be useful.
> 3) Refuse a volunteer with a similar background but who has history of
> being a critic of the company where the code originated.
> 4) When pressed to explain this irregularity, dig itself deeper by
> inventing new concepts out of thin air ('de facto diversity', 'de jure
> diversity') and seeming to suggest that membership on the initial dev
> team was supposed to be some type of first-among equals status that
> was a gift from one person:
>> I really admire that, and I think that it deserves
>> some special recognition, however small. I'm willing to have some
>> people not like me or think I'm dumb if that's the price of giving
>>that to them.
> This would be a noble sentiment if Apache Martyr were a role and if it
> didn't severely hobble the appearance of an honest effort at the
> Apache meritocratic approach.  As I said before, it takes a lot of
> dedication to argue this passionately on a subject one professes
> ignorance of.

Okay, that last line was pretty funny.

> After this, I think the possibility of such an attitude continuing
> into the polling stage is quite small. After stumbling like this I'm
> sure the team will make every effort to build the community as quickly
> as possible.

Indeed we will. And to Benson's point, there are several people, none
of whom work at the organizations involved in the initial proposal,
who have made contributions to Crunch and that we would like to
continue to work with and have them grow to become committers on the
project. Expanding and diversifying the community based on merit is
our singular focus.

> On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Benson Margulies <> wrote:
>> I'll see Jukka one and raise him one. I have advised potential
>> podlings to be very conservative with their initial list, and keep
>> some potential contributors in their collective back pocket. This
>> gives them a ready-made source of community growth, which is typically
>> the scarcest and most precious commodity to a podling. Given the
>> particular remarks around this case, as Jukka points out, it's a
>> great, ahem, opportunity for founders to demonstrate their
>> understanding of the preeminent value of community growth as opposed
>> to code perfection.
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Director of Data Science
Twitter: @josh_wills

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