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From Jakob Homan <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Crunch to join the Apache Incubator
Date Sat, 26 May 2012 22:20:48 GMT
This isn't about whether or not they will respond appropriately to new
contributors once they are incubator project.  And it's absolutely not
whether or not I should be an initial committer (the vote's going on
already and I'm happy it is).

Since the team has already stumbled in its first steps, I can't
imagine it would fail further. I'm sure the whole of the team will
step up (as part of the community).  And I can't say if I'll
contribute or not.  I'm perfectly fine with not being on the initial
team and believe the vote should finish and the proposal be accepted
(I'll put in a binding +1 shortly).

Instead, it's about the Podling's first steps to building a community,
which were:
1) Announcing the would follow the (in my view flawed) approach of S4
and reject any established members of the Apache community that may
wish to join during the proposal.
2) Announce an exception because one volunteer (Vinod) had a
particular background that would be useful.
3) Refuse a volunteer with a similar background but who has history of
being a critic of the company where the code originated.
4) When pressed to explain this irregularity, dig itself deeper by
inventing new concepts out of thin air ('de facto diversity', 'de jure
diversity') and seeming to suggest that membership on the initial dev
team was supposed to be some type of first-among equals status that
was a gift from one person:
> I really admire that, and I think that it deserves
> some special recognition, however small. I'm willing to have some
> people not like me or think I'm dumb if that's the price of giving
>that to them.

This would be a noble sentiment if Apache Martyr were a role and if it
didn't severely hobble the appearance of an honest effort at the
Apache meritocratic approach.  As I said before, it takes a lot of
dedication to argue this passionately on a subject one professes
ignorance of.

After this, I think the possibility of such an attitude continuing
into the polling stage is quite small. After stumbling like this I'm
sure the team will make every effort to build the community as quickly
as possible.

On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Benson Margulies <> wrote:
> I'll see Jukka one and raise him one. I have advised potential
> podlings to be very conservative with their initial list, and keep
> some potential contributors in their collective back pocket. This
> gives them a ready-made source of community growth, which is typically
> the scarcest and most precious commodity to a podling. Given the
> particular remarks around this case, as Jukka points out, it's a
> great, ahem, opportunity for founders to demonstrate their
> understanding of the preeminent value of community growth as opposed
> to code perfection.
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