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From Alex Karasulu <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Graduate Sqoop podling from Apache Incubator
Date Tue, 28 Feb 2012 22:48:12 GMT
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Jukka Zitting <>wrote:

> Hi,
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 9:53 PM, Patrick Hunt <> wrote:
> > On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <>
> wrote:
> >> Opps, I didn't see that Arvind concluded the vote.  I still stand by my
> opinion that there
> >> are some things that are not solely up to the people that are doing the
> work.  Complete
> >> migration to the the org.apache.* package space is one of them.
> >
> > No worries. I respect your opinion and if Apache feels that this is
> > important enough to make explicit then certainly Sqoop should make the
> > changes. Short of that I don't see why we should hold Sqoop to a
> > higher standard than is expected of other Apache projects. (that's
> > _my_ opinion ;-) )
> Right.
It's not that anyone is holding Scoop to a higher standard. We just noticed
the issue now. I noticed because I'm a mentor on another project along side
Alan and since he posted I paid closer attention. I cannot and don't track
every podling. To be honest this is the first real encounter I've had with
Scoop. Sounds like something I could use :-) too. I want to see Scoop
graduate. I certainly don't want the Scoop guys thinking "who's this jerk
getting in our way."

So I, nor the other's expressing concerns have anything against the Scoop
team. It's just chance that this project triggered the discussion. No one
is against Cloudera either. I don't know why people are bothering pointing
out the project came to the ASF Incubator from Github. Github is just a
repository. If you want to know where the code really came from then check
who the majority of contributors were before incubation. It makes no
difference: Cloudera or Github. The problem for us still persists.

> Basically the graduation vote by the IPMC is about determining whether
> the PPMC is capable of conducting itself according to the Apache Way
> and Apache policies on it's own.

I don't understand the rush to graduate. What difference does a month make
in the grand scheme of things? The sudden vehement push to include these
packages worries me. Graduating should not be more important than
addressing valid concerns.

> I didn't have time to look deeper
> into Sqoop yet, but all the +1s in this vote suggest that the Sqoop
> PPMC is ready to take on that responsibility.

Rather than crudely drop a -1 we voiced our concerns as IPMC members, and
mentors to open up discussion about the matter. It's easy to drop the
package and solve the technical problem. If you need a -1 to stop the
process then you have mine.

> Along with that
> responsibility comes the right to make value judgements on topics like
> this where existing policies aren't clearly spelled out.
Honestly I've begun to be concerned after watching how vehemently the
Cloudera people came out of the woodwork to push graduation no matter what
concerns were expressed. IMHO that's not in line with the "Apache Way" as
far as our culture goes. So yes the impatience is triggering me to be
doubtful of their ability to handle the responsibility. At the end of the
day no project is more important than the ASF as a whole.

> Personally I think we should let the vote result stand with guidance
> to the new Sqoop PMC to discuss the matter with the branding team at
> trademarks@ to seek Apache-wide consensus. I encourage anyone who
> feels strongly about this (the point being made clearly has some
> merit) make their case to trademarks@ as it's IMHO not really the task
> of the Incubator to be forming new policy on this, especially with all
> the recent talk about scaling down the ambitions of the IPMC.
That's a good point and to a really large extent I agree with you. However
this is one of the last lines of defense we have before it becomes much
harder to rectify. While we have the issue on the radar let's take care of
it now. That will provide more drive to resolve it quickly.

So I'd rather get clarification on this grey area ASAP. I certainly cannot
brush it under the rug after noticing it. So let's play it safe, get some
resolution, then proceed forward. That's the best approach IMHO. Graduation
will occur in the near future so let's not sweat it.

Best Regards,
-- Alex

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