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From Daniel Shahaf <...@daniel.shahaf.name>
Subject Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings
Date Wed, 11 Jan 2012 19:07:19 GMT
You've identified several problems in your last mails -- do you also
have a suggestion on how to move forward?

If asked, my default suggestion would be to go for "what works
elsewhere", namely: reduce the IPMC to nine people, rotating annually,
who are expected to read and review all podling reports --- and act on
them when they indicate a problem with the mentors and/or the podling.

Joe Schaefer wrote on Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 10:52:48 -0800:
> I hate the fact that these discussions continue to happen in a vacuum
> devoid of any grasp of the reality that mentors typically don't do
> a fucking thing for their podlings.  No they don't discuss reports
> on list, nor do they offer opinions on how to grow a smallish podling's
> committer base, nor do they bother to sign reports even tho we have
> repeatedly requested they do so.
> 
> There are over a DOZEN unsigned reports RIGHT NOW in the current month's
> reports.  If you bother to do any research to see if those podlings have
> had any dev-list discussion about it, you will be disappointed.  Reports
> are treated as a bureaucratic formality that nobody bothers to read. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ross Gardler <rgardler@opendirective.com>
> > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> > Cc: antelder@apache.org; Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 7:05 AM
> > Subject: Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings
> > 
> > On 10 January 2012 22:03, Marcel Offermans <marcel.offermans@luminis.nl> 
> > wrote:
> >>  Whilst I agree there is value in demonstrating a starting podling what a 
> > good report
> >>  should look like by doing it for them, I also strongly believe in learning

> > by doing, so I
> >>  would still propose that a podling has a go at it themselves, before having

> > a mentor step
> >>  in. In the end, this is also a question of "mentoring style" and 
> > I think we should leave
> >>  that up to the mentors and podlings.
> >> 
> >>  A mentor should be actively involved in the discussion about the report 
> > though, ensuring
> >>  that the end result is good.
> > 
> > +1 a mentoring role is one of guiding not doing. I don't support
> > mentors writing reports for podlings. I expect that at least one
> > mentor is involved in the writing of those reports.
> > 
> > If people want to ask mentors to comment on reports when they sign off
> > that's fine, but if you ever see that I've signed off on a report it
> > means that I have at least read the thread that produced the report
> > and might have already commented on it on the dev lists. Isn't that
> > how it should be?
> > 
> > Do mentors sign off on reports they don't agree with? I hope not. If
> > not then all we need to do is ensure the mentors themselves are
> > capable of writing better reports.
> > 
> > Ross
> > 
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