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From Joe Schaefer <joe_schae...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings
Date Wed, 11 Jan 2012 19:12:34 GMT
Yes, we should send a message to mentors that business as usual ended
this month by closing the Incubator to new podlings for one month.
During that time we can get our house in order by going thru the disaster
zone we have created and start educating each other about mentor expectations
with some actual binding documentation.  We may have to tell existing
podlings that without any available and competent mentor representation
that they'll simply have to go elsewhere, we're sorry but we over-promised
and under-delivered.



----- Original Message -----
> From: Daniel Shahaf <d.s@daniel.shahaf.name>
> To: Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
> Cc: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>; "antelder@apache.org"
<antelder@apache.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 2:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings
> 
> You've identified several problems in your last mails -- do you also
> have a suggestion on how to move forward?
> 
> If asked, my default suggestion would be to go for "what works
> elsewhere", namely: reduce the IPMC to nine people, rotating annually,
> who are expected to read and review all podling reports --- and act on
> them when they indicate a problem with the mentors and/or the podling.
> 
> Joe Schaefer wrote on Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 10:52:48 -0800:
>>  I hate the fact that these discussions continue to happen in a vacuum
>>  devoid of any grasp of the reality that mentors typically don't do
>>  a fucking thing for their podlings.  No they don't discuss reports
>>  on list, nor do they offer opinions on how to grow a smallish podling's
>>  committer base, nor do they bother to sign reports even tho we have
>>  repeatedly requested they do so.
>> 
>>  There are over a DOZEN unsigned reports RIGHT NOW in the current 
> month's
>>  reports.  If you bother to do any research to see if those podlings have
>>  had any dev-list discussion about it, you will be disappointed.  Reports
>>  are treated as a bureaucratic formality that nobody bothers to read. 
> Period.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  > From: Ross Gardler <rgardler@opendirective.com>
>>  > To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>  > Cc: antelder@apache.org; Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
>>  > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 7:05 AM
>>  > Subject: Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings
>>  > 
>>  > On 10 January 2012 22:03, Marcel Offermans 
> <marcel.offermans@luminis.nl> 
>>  > wrote:
>>  >>  Whilst I agree there is value in demonstrating a starting podling 
> what a 
>>  > good report
>>  >>  should look like by doing it for them, I also strongly believe in 
> learning 
>>  > by doing, so I
>>  >>  would still propose that a podling has a go at it themselves, 
> before having 
>>  > a mentor step
>>  >>  in. In the end, this is also a question of "mentoring 
> style" and 
>>  > I think we should leave
>>  >>  that up to the mentors and podlings.
>>  >> 
>>  >>  A mentor should be actively involved in the discussion about the 
> report 
>>  > though, ensuring
>>  >>  that the end result is good.
>>  > 
>>  > +1 a mentoring role is one of guiding not doing. I don't support
>>  > mentors writing reports for podlings. I expect that at least one
>>  > mentor is involved in the writing of those reports.
>>  > 
>>  > If people want to ask mentors to comment on reports when they sign off
>>  > that's fine, but if you ever see that I've signed off on a 
> report it
>>  > means that I have at least read the thread that produced the report
>>  > and might have already commented on it on the dev lists. Isn't 
> that
>>  > how it should be?
>>  > 
>>  > Do mentors sign off on reports they don't agree with? I hope not. 
> If
>>  > not then all we need to do is ensure the mentors themselves are
>>  > capable of writing better reports.
>>  > 
>>  > Ross
>>  > 
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