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From Mark Struberg <>
Subject Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings
Date Mon, 09 Jan 2012 14:16:18 GMT
I'm actively mentoring Isis. 

With having bval out of incubation I will also find a bit more time to review the bits and
pieces a bit better.

Isis really has a pretty active community and we have quite some users coming along. 

It would maybe make sense to shift direction a bit from a pure NakedObjects framework to a
more EE6 extensible framework.
That might attract new interest. Being kind of a 4GL framework might not be that sexy nowadays,
so we might spice this up with EE6 extensibility. 
Will discuss this with the project in the coming days.


----- Original Message -----
> From: Sam Ruby <>
> To:
> Cc: 
> Sent: Monday, January 9, 2012 2:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings
> On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 9:55 PM, Benson Margulies <> 
> wrote:
>>  Sam,
>>  I started this separate thread because I view this situation as
>>  distinctive from the problem you are referring to here. I take that
>>  situation just as seriously as you do, I think. If you'd prefer that I
>>  drop this (less urgent) problem until that one is under control. I'm
>>  happy to do so.
> It is fair enough statement that not all of us need to work on what I
> happen to think is most urgent.  This statement is true even if we
> might happen to agree on the relative priorities.
> I will merely point out that your suggestion is at least mildly at
> cross purposes to the issue that I want addressed.  One of my concerns
> is that there are a number of podlings that are comfortably nestled in
> with no need to graduate.  However, that is by no means my biggest
> concern, which is the silent attrition rate of mentors.  In the case
> of Isis, I am fully prepared to accept that that podling has at least
> one active mentor.
>>  No, I'm not asking for a blank check. I'm asking you and the other
>>  more experienced people if you think that the idea of treating
>>  Isis-like podlings differently from other podlings by giving them more
>>  autonomy and less oversight makes any sense to you. If you all say,
>>  'no, we don't want to change anything,' I'll drop it. If 
> you say 'hmm,
>>  let's talk details,' then I'll attempt to flesh out details. 
> However,
>>  since your bottom line is 'make a more concrete proposal,' then I
>>  will, but I will wait a bit to see if this thread attracts any other
>>  thoughts about the overall concept first.
> You previously mentioned that there might be incubator requirements
> that are burdensome on mentors.  Identifying those and ways to address
> them are things that I could definitely support.
> Looking specifically at Isis, the last report[1] to the board contained:
>     Top 3 Issues to address in move towards graduation
>     * More blogging/publicity from existing community...
>     * More users of the framework...
>     * More committers to the framework
> The latter might be a concern.  The first two however are not direct
> concerns.  At most, they are indirect: i.e., ways to attract
> committers.  Looking at the incubator page[2], I see more than three
> committers, and in fact four of them are ASF members.  If at least one
> of these ASF members intends is willing to continue on the PMC, and
> the lack of committers were the only issue, then I would be
> comfortable with this podling graduating.
> - Sam Ruby
> [1] 
> [2]
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