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From Greg Stein <>
Subject Re: Accumulo incubator proposal: Statement of Concern
Date Tue, 13 Sep 2011 04:42:38 GMT
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 22:34, Doug Meil <> wrote:
> Hi there-
> I thought the email chain prompted by my questions had a gracious and
> productive ending several days ago, but if you would like to start this up
> again, ok.

No... Knowing Noel, he was not opening anything. He was speaking to
general principles about how the Incubator works. He just came to the
discussion late, and wanted to clarify the Incubator principles.

> re:  "turf is being infringed"
> It's funny that you said that, because according to the other emails on
> Accumulo in the past week there are a couple thousand lines of HBase code
> in Accumulo, and core functionality at that (e.g., block cache).  Even
> Incubator supporters of Accumulo would admit that's a little unusual in
> the ASF, and I believe they've said so in other threads I've seen.

What is unusual? Building upon other open source projects? Hardly.

> As was pointed out, HBase copied the Hadoop RPC for it's own purpose, but
> HBase wasn't trying to be another RPC framework - it was trying to be
> Hbase - something Hadoop was not.
> I'm not making a legal argument here because the ASF code license is free
> beer/speech, etc.  It's just that Accumulo is, in a very real sense,
> actually standing on a part of HBase.

So f'ing what?!

The ASF releases its code for others to use and to build upon. They
are doing *exactly* what we want them to? What is your issue with

> If there are other examples of this in Apache I'd be curious to know what
> they are.  That's not a sarcastic request... seriously, I'd like to know
> because it would be worth documenting as case studies for other projects.

Who cares? Apache produces code to be *used*. Period. If other
projects at Apache use it, then awesome. If other projects fork it and
change it, then totally fine. It might be nice to feed their changes
back, but maybe they have a different goal, and need to take it in a
direction the original project will not sign up for.

In short: every comment of yours absolutely signals "turf war" to me.
You seemingly continue to take affront at Accumulo for one reason or
another, and attempt to justify that position through various
hand-waving that flies in the face of what the ASF truly represents.
And I say: that stinks.

Accumulo has every right, and every encouragement, to do exactly what
they're doing. And they are now able to share their work with us.
AWESOME. Nothing more difficult than that.

> re:  "overlap"
> This is the "there are multiple webservers in ASF" counter-argument -
> except that ones that exist are in two different languages (Apache WS and
> Tomcat).  The point I made in my email is that if a 3rd webserver showed
> up that was written in Java that copied a couple thousand lines of code
> from Tomcat, I would hope somebody would ask why.  I thought I had some
> agreements from some folks on this thread, but you feel differently so
> we're going to have to disagree.

Language difference was just an example. You're focusing on the wrong
thing. The point is that a community desires to accomplish a task in a
different way. Whether that is through language, approach, or just a
different config file format... that is fine.

I'm with Alex on this one: we're here to foster communities. When
somebody has a new idea, then we are here to support them.

It is not our purpose to shut down communities.


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