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From Jim Jagielski <>
Subject Re: Apache Incubator Proposal: Splitting the Community?
Date Fri, 03 Jun 2011 18:42:06 GMT
Cmon, being bitch-slapped is why we're *all* here. :)

The fact is that I feel that having OOo here and, especially,
under the AL2.0, is a Very Good Thing. No, that does not
mean in any way, shape or form that I think that TDF needs
to go away, is superfluous or any other sort of nonsensical
stuff; there are some *obvious* ways were collaboration
is possible, obvious places where both sides can learn from
each other... But there are also non-obvious ones as well,
ones never considered because there was never the opportunity
to do so; I think it would be a real shame to not take time
to dig around for what some of those might be.

It's for that reason that I think such ideas as "simply
give it all to TDF and be done with it" are short-sighted.
Maybe in the long run, that might just be the "best" decision,
but it is *way* to early to limit ourselves to that.

Sun had an opportunity. They never pushed it and so it
never happened. Same with Oracle. Now that OOo is (or
will be or might be) an ASF project, the entire community
*now has options and opportunitis* that it never had

I don't like any scenario that from day 1 doesn't have
cooperation as a top 3 goal. I also think it disingenuous
to suggest that either TDF or the ASF does not agree that
OOo will live, or die, based on that cooperation.

On Jun 3, 2011, at 2:25 PM, Simon Phipps wrote:

> I suggest you stick to the content of the e-mails on the list, Jim. Yes, I
> am concerned about how this all came about, but the reason I am here on the
> list is to be constructive and not to be bitch-slapped and misrepresented
> just for showing up.
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Jim Jagielski <> wrote:
>> Cmon Joe, Simon's PoV has been clear from his tweets,
>> unless he has changed his mind... If I am mis-representing
>> his stance, Simon's a big boy and can tell me where I'm
>> wrong and I'll admit I was wrong. Does he say that *both*
>> TDF and the ASF has the opportunity? No, just the ASF.
>> Maybe that is a nit, but of such nits confusion arises.
>> On Jun 3, 2011, at 2:05 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>> Cmon Jim, he wrote a lengthy monologue which spelled
>>> out his position.  As I read it, we could license
>>> the OpenOffice trademark to the Document Foundation
>>> for, as Simon put it, "business as usual" distributions.
>>> If we wanted to we could specify a time/date/event
>>> upon which that license terminates, and the "new"
>>> stuff going on at the ASF would be distributing code
>>> under the mark.
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>> From: Jim Jagielski <>
>>>> To:
>>>> Sent: Fri, June 3, 2011 1:58:51 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Apache Incubator Proposal: Splitting the
>>> Community?
>>>> On Jun 3, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Simon Phipps wrote:
>>>>> On 3  Jun 2011, at 17:52, Ian Lynch wrote:
>>>>>> Hi  Florian,
>>>>>>> I do see with great concern  is the need for a second project
to be
>> set-up
>>>>>>> at Apache or any  other entity.
>>>>>> Thing is that this is  done, Oracle didn't and won't now give the
>> to any
>>>>>> other  foundation.  So we are where we are.
>>>>> We may be where we  are, but we collectively have the opportunity to
>>>> collaborate once Oracle has  gone - that's what "open" means.  "My way
>> or the
>>>> highway" talk - from any  side - is detestable.  ASF has the opportunity
>> to
>>>> reject the bait to head  down the path of ideological conflict, choose a
>>>> conciliatory path that respects  the existing community and especially
>> to use
>>>> the trademark (which is the only  actual asset being transferred) for
>> everyone's
>>>> good.
>>>> Let's be  honest: by "collaborate" you mean have the ASF simply
>>>> xfer the code and the  trademark to TDF and walk away... At least,
>>>> that is the strong impression you  give. Please correct me if  I'm
>>>> wrong.
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> -- 
> Simon Phipps
> +1 415 683 7660 :

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