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From Christian Grobmeier <>
Subject Re: OpenOffice: were are we now?
Date Mon, 06 Jun 2011 09:55:56 GMT
>> Or rather, the incubator needs to evaluate current proposals on its current
>> methodology, and (in a quiet time between proposals) generate more specific
>> criteria for incubation, independent of any particular proposal.  I just
>> find it rude to change the rules of the game during the match.
> That is a fair point and I will shut up about this now,

I don't think you should. Sometimes the rules of a game work until
something very extraordinary happens. Who are we, if we could not
change our own rules. The OpenOffice proposal is very different to
others in some kind. Maybe we need to think twice on several aspects.
At least, your arguments made me think. I have no conclusion so far, I
am still thinking.

The OOo proposal does heat emotions. OOo is the base at which back a
new foundation has grown. In some kind it has been expressed that - if
we accept to add this podling - we are suddenly playing the game
Oracle has started. After all Oracle is responsible for all the noise
around. We have left the JCP b/c they were not nice to us, now we are
taking over a something - which was a reason for lots of people to
found the TDF.

After some post read here, I would see that this debatte is not only
the process "podling yes/no". It is not only that some feelings on
code level are hurt. It is more that Oracle has somehow lost a battle,
and we are taking caring on the rest and try safe the trademark. If we
can manage it, Oracle would look good - they have saved OOo, users
say. And the TDF are looking a bit more like the nasty rebels, since
they do not follow.

So this is my impression I got in the past hours of the discussion. I
for sure have not insight into the TDF community and for sure of no
idea what Oracle really thinks. I just tried to understand the
concerns Phil et al have and from this political standpoint, he is
right. Should the incubator or even the board step in if such politics
is coming into game? This is the question Phil wants to be answered,
and I think we should answer it. (Phil, please correct me if I
misinterpreted something)

that being said - can OOo really be treated like each other podling? I
start to feel it might not be the case. Can we change the rules while
the game? Yes, we can. I would be very dissappointed if we would obey
blindly to our own rules just because they are there. I want to think
each time about them when I need them. If they don't fit anymore, I
want to throw them away, if possible.

> other than
> to answer your question about "exploitation" that is germane to this
> proposal.   One way to look at this proposal is to see it as an
> attempt to use the ASF brand and infrastructure to fork a
> community.  That is exploitative.

My feeling says, I start to understand you.

Who are we to disband a community (to the liking of Oracle)
We need an Office suite under our license

> Other threads have argued both
> sides of this fully.  People can come to their own conclusions. My
> point was that we can't really assess this without getting clearer
> on what we mean by exploitation and how much of it we are willing to
> tolerate.  Again, read the post carefully and you will understand my
> intent.

I am not sure if I should support you intension or not. But this is
one of the questions I was looking for before my thread got hijacked.
I would love to have a clear statement in this very special (=
political) case. It's nothing else then the JCP discussion.

Thanks Phil - it is not easy to speak about such a thing when you have
strong arguments against you


> Phil
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