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From Christian Grobmeier <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSSION] Accept for incubation
Date Sat, 11 Jun 2011 06:40:45 GMT

> I think Italo is incorrect saying voting "no" would be a defeat for
> free software. It is an honest mistake. People don't know what else
> could happen, because alternatives are not being discussed.

They have been discussed. Even at this list. We have discussed to say
"no" to OOo at the ASF. We have discussed collaborations. There were
even some more exotic ideas on this proposal.

> I have
> noticed many think no other plans are possible. This forces people to
> vote "yes".

Sorry, but how can you know? Did you speak with everybody? DId you get
private messages from some folks asking you for help? Are you a
psychologist and know about group dynamics?

> I think LibreOffice people are quiet for various reasons:
> 1. Voting yes is seen as being helpful and friendly, but voting no is
> seen as unhelpful.

There are "no" voters, even long respected ASF members. Their reasons
are very helpful and I think over them. Please don't tell me how I
should see "no/yes" votes.

> 2. It isn't clear if voting helps. They've made their points clear.

It has been explained already how voting at the ASF is working. It has
also been said that voting -1 with good reasons are discussed, if
necessary. When arguments have been discussed in the past which do not
cause people to vote -1, then not all people do share this concerns.

> 3. These people are thrown into this chaos only months into their
> existence. Should they be unfriendly to a bad idea? This is not
> something that many have had to deal with frequently before. None were
> likely a part of the Blu-Ray / HD-DVD fiasco, etc.

Come on. Are you serious?
We are speaking of adults.

> 4. It is rude not to retract a plan that many have objections to.
> Should they compound it with their own rudeness?

It is how democracy usually works. You have X pro, Y contra,
afterwards you have a decision. Usually some complain about it

> 5. With all the people related to Sun / Oracle or IBM, some think the fix is in.

Maybe they are right, maybe not. Were is the argument?

> 6. Some think their official position means they should be quiet / diplomatic.

How can you know?

You often speak as representation of the LO/copyleft folks. Have you
been asked to represent a group? I doubt. If no, then please stop
speaking for other people or organizations until you have been asked
to do so.

You can share your own opinion. But please stop with saying "many",
"some", "all" whatever. You simply don't know, you guess. And to be
honest, I cannot agree with your guesses. They are just tiring and
time wasting. If you restart such a philosphical debatte, please come
up with facts.

> The mistake is there could be a silent majority of objectors.

Yes there could. A worm live in the apple. There is a silent majority
against car driving. This does not lead to anywhere.

> The TDF community is big already. It is cheapest to vote "no" now.
> Anyway, I
> have my own plans so I wish you success in your good ones.

Good luck in the future.


> Kind regards,
> -Keith
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