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From Louis Suarez-Potts <>
Subject Re: [ Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
Date Thu, 02 Jun 2011 05:19:09 GMT

On 2011-06-02, at 01:02 , wrote:

> Louis Suarez-Potts <> wrote on 06/01/2011 09:41:08 
> PM:
>> * Apache Foundation owns the trademark to OOo?
>> * We at OOo receive lots of requests to use it for mostly good 
>> purposes. We grant these, with minimal fuss and have set up systems 
>> to do that more efficiently. With the change in trademark ownership—
>> if?—the situation will naturally change. I'd like some clarity on that.
> Hi Louis, I'm glad to hear from you.
> If I understand your question correctly, we really need to understand 
> three things:
> 1) What things did OpenOffice derivative projects do with the 
> trademark when Sun/Oracle owned the trademark, things that 
> we want to perpetuate under Apache?

Derivative projects has legal meaning. In the case of those which Sun or Oracle owned, then
it hardly matters. In the case of IBM's Symphony, you tell me. In the case of others: again,
if there were special agreements between Sun/Oracle and the contracting party, then the special
agreement speaks for itself.  

My question related to the common allowance of trademark use. Example: you
want to declare that you use and so ask us (OOo) if you can paste the trademarked
logo on your Web site. Well, in the old days—yesterday? Today?—you'd fill in a form found
on the OOo site and probably be granted permission, by Oracle.

Well. That's the problem: By Whom, now? As Greg pointed out, these be early days and though
the latter days will show clearer ways, for now, it's kind of murky.

> and
> 2) In the ordinarily case, what use of Apache project related trademarks 
> are allowed to other projects/products based on Apache project code?
> and
> 3) What do we do if 1 and 2 conflict, e.g., if Sun/Oracle were more 
> permissive than Apache is.

I'm interested in expanding the market for ODF and resolving anxieties the community and ecosystem
(not much of a difference)  may have. I'm also really interested in ensuring that users are
not surprised by faux versions of code produced via the New Order :-) and calling itself "'.
My impression is that if it comes from the site, as at present, then more or
less status quo: OOo continues to police its identity. But…..
> I think this needs to start with understanding #1.  For example, did 
> anyone historically have a legitimate need to rebuild/repackage OpenOffice 
> outside of the Apache project and still call it "OpenOffice" (unadorned)? 
> My gut feeling is that would be dangerous.


>> * Similarly, OOo is more than a developer community; it's also a 
>> shifting set of globally dispersed ecosystems built around the 
>> primary application and concerned with the usual open source 
>> matters—support, education, training, services, migration, etc. I've
>> worked hard to help set many of these up, and to establish the 
>> ecosystems, so that there is a real market for the ODF and OOo, as 
>> well as its relatives.  What now?
> I've tried to give a sense of the richness of this in the "community" 
> section of the proposal on the wiki.  I think you will be able to improve 
> it, based on your experience.  But we probably don't need a tome on it.
> But to your question, I think the ideal solution is to attract the right 
> people.  This is easier and more effective than recreating an ecosystem. 
> And to attract the right people we need to show them how working in Apache 
> can make them more effective.
> There are also some technical things we can do to make this easier, in 
> terms of packaging, extension points, etc.  And as was discussed earlier 
> in the thread, the Apache 2.0 license encourages reuse and sharing, and 
> thus facilitates the kind of ecosystem we want.
>> Finally, I'll call a special Community Council (what 
>> is left of it, if any) to go over the quite significant (as in 
>> totally tectonic) change. We—the OOo community, basically—really do 
>> want and even need to understand the Quo of the Vadis:  what we are 
>> doing henceforth, where we are going.
> Excellent.  I look forward to hearing how that meeting goes.

> -Rob


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