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From Alex Karasulu <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Accept Howl as an Incubator Project
Date Tue, 08 Mar 2011 20:01:42 GMT
Hi Alan,

On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Alan Gates <> wrote:

> We are taking it seriously.  We (Howl mentors and committers) discussed
> this and the consensus seemed to be we wanted to stay with the name if
> possible.  The feedback on this list was mixed, with many for changing it
> and some not worried about it.  So we wanted to stick with it for now and
> see how it went.
I'm not here to create a problem for y'all. Keep in mind I +1'd the proposal
even though I had some reservations about all of you being Yahoo'ers. You
can work on that in the incubator - no problem to diversify while

But I've been around for a while and have seen a few things. Let me be more
specific. We had Felix which entered the incubator as Oscar about 5 years
ago. We had a little bit of an issue there because of OW's Oscar. It was a
little bit different here but still close enough to mention. It created some
noise that eventually led to the Felix name change a la the odd couple:
thanks to Alan Cabrera for the suggestion.

Anyways you're going to most likely have an issue, its only a matter of
time. I'm trying to say this nicely and want you to have a smooth entry. I
don't know if you have a choice on this one, but I am not an expert on this
topic. I just saw the issue and pointed it out. You might want to run this
by legal-discuss@ to get their professional opinion. I've CC'd the list in
this mail.

Our desire to stay with the name is not merely because we like the name.
>  The Pig, Hive, and MapReduce teams have been talking about Howl in their
> communities for 9 months now, and we are concerned that changing the name
> will cause confusion in those communities.  I cannot recall anyone in our
> communities confusing the Howl we are talking about with the Howl OW2
> project.
> What if we call it Howl Table Manager?  That would address our concerns
> about confusion in our communities.  Would it address the concerns expressed
> on this list about confusion with Howl OW2 and your concerns about legal
> liabilities for Apache?
I'd find an IP clear name and just free myself of this all together. I'd
hate to see y'all build up more traction on this name and be forced to give
it up down the line.

Good luck, I sincerely hope my limited knowledge of this topic is incorrect
in this case and you can still keep the HOWL name. But let's ask the

Best Regards,

On Mar 7, 2011, at 7:04 PM, Alex Karasulu wrote:
>  What about the naming conflict with Howl from ObjectWeb
>> [0]<>?
>> Anyone address this serious issue yet? I pointed this out a while back and
>> frankly am shocked not to see this resolved.
>> HOWL has been around long before this project: 6 years
>> [1]<>.
>> So you're certainly not going to be able to defend your right to the name.
>> What's going to happen when ObjectWeb finds out after an announcement
>> about
>> the Howl Project entering the Apache Incubator?
>> I did not ORIGINALLY want to veto on account of this easily fixable issue
>> hoping someone would address it. I suggest fixing it before entering or
>> we're all going to have to deal with a big headache. I'd like to avoid
>> that.
>> Whether you change it now before entering the Apache Incubator, or you'll
>> have to do so down the line when the ASF receives a cease and desist
>> letter.
>> Better now than in the later case since you'll still have to change it In
>> the end and this way you will not have pissed off a whole lot of people.
>> Please take this seriously.
>> Thanks,
>> Alex
>> -----
>> [0] -
>> [1] -
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