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From Greg Stein <>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion
Date Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:26:25 GMT
On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 00:27, David Crossley <> wrote:
> Greg Stein wrote:
>>  Subversion ...
> Normally we see a Proposal phase, followed by a Vote phase.
> The Subversion team proposal is so well prepared. Thanks.
> I don't see any issues with your entry to incubation,
> so +1 from me.

Thank you.

Yes, I certainly paused and considered whether to simply send the
proposal, or to request a vote with it. But given that there are a
solid half-dozen ASF Members among the svn "full committers" (what we
think of as PMC members) who reviewed and tweaked the proposal and
implicitly provided a +1 for it, I felt that we had enough votes for
the proposal text.

The bunch of us were also very optimistic about the acceptance of
Subversion into the Incubator, so I also felt it was warranted to
avoid wasting time with separated review and vote phases. Should
anybody raise an issue or concern, or find or specify additional
needs, then we can and will handle those during the incubation period.
The svn devs are quite resilient :-P ... we can address or speak to
whatever may come up.

Now that said:

I expect Subversion to be DONE very quickly. Apache Wicket may have
set a "record" at about six/seven months in the Incubator. My
expectation is that Subversion will spend that many *weeks* in the

Yes. Weeks.

None of us want to short-change or skip the Incubation process. But
when you stop and consider what Incubation means, there are three main

1) grants for the code
2) diverse community
3) teach procedures/process

The Subversion Corp will grant the IP (step 1) almost immediately,
following our 72-hour vote about accepting svn. Regarding point 2: svn
is a 9.5 year old project -- the diversity is very well established.
And lastly, the project has been established and run with the best
Apache principles in mind.

In fact, that leads me to an interesting anecdote:

The ASF used to have very fine-grained authorization around
directories within our source control. Within a project, certain
people could commit to one directory, but not another. Within the
Subversion project, we grant everybody commit access to *everything*,
but we may tell them "don't commit <there> without approval". The
project relies on social rules, rather than technical-based
restrictions. Well... that concept was "back-ported" to the ASF. There
was a push many years ago to the PMCs to allow full rights across
their codebases to PMC members. The authorization file has been
simplified as a result. Subversion taught *us* how to trust your
committers to Do The Right Thing, rather than mistrust them and
control them with technical rules.

But all this said: it means that we're very optimistic that Subversion
and its community will pass muster with the needs, rules, and process
set by the Incubator. There *are* a number of items that we want to
raise for awareness, and to discuss. We've listed those items (LGPL
stuff, infra bits, etc) in the proposal, and we want to work through
those items here and on the legal lists. We are going to be moving
quickly, but we *will* work on raising and resolving every issue and
concern that comes up. I think there is going to be some concern that
we're "forcing/rushing" the process, but I believe the speed is simply
a function of the awesome match in ideals.

> Perhaps this Vote phase should run for a while.
> (I am thinking about setting precedents for other
> incubation proposals.)

I was planning a standard 72-hour vote, concluding Saturday. Do you
feel that it should be extended further?

> By the way, it would probably be good to list your initial
> committers in the proposal, as we suggest for other proponents.
> That adds it to these mail list archives.

The proposal included the list by reference
( Do you think it
best to be explicit, and list them in this thread?




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