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From Justin Erenkrantz <>
Subject Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)
Date Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:15:04 GMT
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Greg Stein <> wrote:
> The Apache Incubator is about EDUCATION. It is about TEACHING podlings
> how to work here at Apache.
> The Incubator PMC is here to TEACH podlings. Stop and think before
> attempting to apply "rules and procedures".


The Incubation process is about certifying whether the new community
can stand on its own and follow Apache practices and procedures.

Greg has pointed at the public records and discussions surrounding
Subversion doing releases - as a mentor, I feel that these processes
are in-line (if not exceeding) the Apache practices and procedures and
no more needs to be proven here regarding releases.  If someone can
point out where that process falls noticeably short of Apache
standards, please let us know and we'll take it into consideration.

To be clear, it's on the mentors to decide what is applicable and
necessary for graduation - not the IPMC as a whole.  The IPMC as a
whole has only two roles: approving a proposal and recommending
graduation - in between those two stages, it's up to the mentors to
drive the show on behalf of the IPMC.  Non-mentors don't get to hold a
podling hostage and all votes by the IPMC are majority-based (no vetos

To be fair, there are some minor points and variations that we're
already aware of.  But, that's why Greg, Sander, Dan, and I (and
others who aren't formally named) are around to teach the more subtle
mechanics of the ASF to those within Subversion: where to submit CLAs,
how to post releases in our mirroring system, what to do with (L)GPL
scripts, etc.  Given our personal long track records within both
Apache and Subversion (nearing or surpassing a decade; geez, we've
been at this a long time!), I believe it's reasonable to ask for the
trust that goes with ensuring that we'll be sure to keep Subversion in
line with Apache practices and procedures - and we will continue to do
so long after the Incubator has recommended Subversion for graduation.
 =)  -- justin

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