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From "Richard S. Hall" <>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Apache Aries incubator for Enterprise OSGi
Date Fri, 04 Sep 2009 22:04:40 GMT

On 9/4/09 16:49, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Richard,
> I see your viewpoint better now. Thanks.
> One more question, Will there be a problem of folks on dev@felix not 
> being able or willing to participate in a new podling? (If the folks 
> presenting this proposal do wish to start off as a podling)

Dims, since I don't speak for all Felix community members, I can't 
really answer that question. I imagine that interested parties would 
contribute, but certainly a benefit of at least doing any independent 
OSGi spec impls at Felix is you will automatically get the oversight of 
people who have been doing it for years, if not their contribution. The 
separation could possibly make life simpler too for those willing to 
help, since:

   1. People interested only in the OSGi spec impls do not necessarily
      have to be involved on Aries mailing lists that will likely
      incorporate a lot of discussion about the Aries component model
      and related content.
   2. Finished impls could quickly be released as non-incubator artifacts.

-> richard

> thanks,
> dims
> On 09/04/2009 04:31 PM, Richard S. Hall wrote:
>> On 9/4/09 16:10, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>> Richard,
>>> On 09/04/2009 03:49 PM, Richard S. Hall wrote:
>>>> So, no, I am not saying "everything should", but in general, it 
>>>> would be
>>>> nice if the spec impls started there since we have a community of OSGi
>>>> users and OSGi experts who are very active and receptive, many of whom
>>>> also work in the EE space.
>>> Will the people mentioned not participate if Aries is a separate
>>> podling to start with? After all destination PMC can be determined
>>> during graduation process. Also the incubation process is to show new
>>> incoming team how Apache works that better done as a podling
>>> or as a felix sub project? If we continue the same thought process,
>>> will there every be any incubator podling with for any OSGi related
>>> activity?
>> Yes, and I mentioned this, but that seems to get lost somehow.
>>>> In short, it makes sense for spec impls tied to the Aries component
>>>> model (for example), to be hosted there, but there is little need to
>>>> create another project to incubate generic OSGi spec impls, since the
>>>> Felix community was set up for that. The reality is, most OSGi 
>>>> specs are
>>>> not huge projects so we likely wouldn't want TLPs for all of them, but
>>>> nothing stops a subproject started at Felix from going TLP if it takes
>>>> on a life of its own.
>>> Choices are
>>> 1) Podling -> TLP
>>> 2) Podling -> Felix Sub project
>>> 3) Podling -> Felix Sub project -> TLP
>>> 4) Felix Sub project
>>> 5) Felix Sub project -> TLP
>>> The first 3 effectively uses incubator process(es) to educate the
>>> incoming folks and provides a strong grounding in ASF-land (at least
>>> that is what the intention is :)
>>> So, why should we bypass incubator?
>> Again, there was already a project incubated to educate incoming folks
>> on how to create open source OSGi spec impls at Apache, so why do we
>> need to repeat that process?
>> Your phrasing of this question implies we are trying to somehow skirt
>> the Apache way, but educating incoming people via contributions and
>> meritocracy to an existing project is not some shortcut.
>> -> richard
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
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