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From Martin Cooper <>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Apache Aries incubator for Enterprise OSGi
Date Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:59:09 GMT
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Richard S. Hall<> wrote:

I'm not sure I understand the issue here. Whether Aries becomes its
own TLP, or a sub-project of Felix or some other TLP, isn't relevant
until the project is ready to exit incubation. Why does it warrant
such apparently intense discussion before the project is even accepted
into incubation?

Martin Cooper

> As I said on dev@felix and will repeat here:
> ----
> I don't agree about renaming the [Felix] TLP. There are so many examples of
> similar situations. I cannot believe we are truly in a unique situation
> here:
>   * "Apache" typically means the HTTP Server project, but it also
>     refers to the foundation and all of its independent projects.
>   * "Eclipse" typically means the IDE, but there is also a runtime and
>     foundation with independent projects.
> Acting like this isn't normal or something that is too confusing to ever
> resolve seems a bit preposterous.
> ----
> While I don't believe the situation is as confusing as is contended, I have
> no issue with coming up with a different name for the Apache Felix Framework
> (its name is technically Framework right now), so that the Apache Felix
> project can continue to pursue its original charter.
> -> richard
> On 9/1/09 12:58, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>> I'm not subscribing to dev@felix.a.o at the moment, but would still like
>> to
>> hear the outcome of this...
>> Richard, we (you and I at least) have discussed this more than once in the
>> past and I totally agree with Guillaume that the perception is there, it
>> is
>> everything and near impossible to change. I ALSO agree with Richard that
>> spec implementations should reside with Felix.
>> Now, I think name manipulations are going to be necessary. My take is;
>> Apache Felix = a OSGi framework, runtime, installers, binaries, bells and
>> whistles. The whole kitchen sink if you like. The framework implementation
>> itself probably lives here, with the Core spec service implementations.
>> Apache Foo = a foundry to dev OSGi spec implementations. One or many. Most
>> will be dependencies to Felix, but the detach shows that they are intended
>> for all.
>> Apache Bar = a component foundry outside the spec suite.
>> And let Aries, Karaf, Ace and what else in future to go TLP if/when they
>> are
>> ready.
>> I think ServiceMix has with its friends shown how nice eco-systems can
>> work,
>> and with OSGi's modularity strengths it should be even more so... In fact,
>> instead of seeing this as a weakening of Felix position (which is what I
>> think Richard sees), I think it will strengthen OSGi's natural place in
>> the
>> Apache Landscape.
>> Don't forget, you are free to participate at as many places as you wish.
>> -- Niclas
>> P.S. Sorry for poor quoting. On mobile...
>> On Sep 2, 2009 12:14 AM, "Guillaume Nodet"<>  wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 18:06, Richard S. Hall<>
>>  wrote:
>>>> Creating another pr...
>> Well, the problem I see here is that we *need* to educate non-techies.
>>  This
>> obvisouly mean that there is a confusion.  Education is just a work around
>> the need to remove the confusion imho.  So let's discuss that on
>> dev@felix.a.o, I don't think this thread belongs here.
>> -- Cheers, Guillaume Nodet ------------------------ Blog:
>> ----------...

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