From general-return-22892-apmail-incubator-general-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Wed Aug 19 17:15:39 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 85498 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2009 17:15:37 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (140.211.11.3) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 19 Aug 2009 17:15:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 94235 invoked by uid 500); 19 Aug 2009 17:15:56 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 94046 invoked by uid 500); 19 Aug 2009 17:15:55 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 94036 invoked by uid 99); 19 Aug 2009 17:15:55 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:15:55 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=10.0 tests=SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [206.190.49.139] (HELO web54409.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.139) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with SMTP; Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:15:46 +0000 Received: (qmail 70841 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Aug 2009 17:15:23 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1250702123; bh=SC10ur0craRf4cWnRepzMhSVCWO/+hLb7nRyYL7NBx8=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=e4nVWJx98prg+N5qlSJmZJ5vpoSPvzgD6EpQRCSDBdD01wJ249+F91KMoqNSrRZP2SppcHkZQ8SNSG9suzXE9Fk+rCB6iFIIjHrnzzy2aTguIvyx1eReX8eqY5pvsZK2HRy8EP4wJ26a5EA8Or6VubV8mrCcx1yHs6kg/ZcmDKw= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=N2WDhZeGdfPNK60VzMEsq8r76xcj+vMgmfyLVz9v9EQobxfbM9OYlArpmC5SL5rPcIgXza0XewnQlaQEhOTX6SmKTuPIflCi9jVzi/lNW8TXL5YtFIhyVcdGBD2330LJSnmICGlI6aKSJVRTs7E+m3bZaFU1MG5dY7AZ2f/hxsQ=; Message-ID: <715102.67422.qm@web54409.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: MJMyTvcVM1nwUuEQBrGDfgbATJTqR99RuQZGqANW_KK4e.YafZdZAow4YVT578K_4d_97QQAx1znut0ZAC6ttIEQIJwGV9K3NFU71NI.yCQbF1zLu8JhVQCt_DMiR2r048m_1jx6BmuGelqTd2235YdAZCq3lc9fFXfyOWb4AinRo5TvKQ62Ti4A8TxH4DIGrtTR6DKzl1DJT5KJ9o4d3jtE7eHMupsgRnXqeo7mT4X8tkri8XVK1RRr0yaZEGAJ3ESDlNtBgQxKuAtA0SmvmA1COzgqocovK877EqY3okUKrmVyyk2oGc5pi0obs382Ka1s3BxcHA0- Received: from [65.12.220.185] by web54409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:15:23 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1358.27 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 References: <71e1b5740908180853i1d6f48ftfd356b2e8ce5aa19@mail.gmail.com> <11C94007-399F-4946-94A4-8FDC2117ED2A@SUN.com> <564E32BA-86F2-42A8-8805-80CE9A2D2C90@SUN.com> <25aac9fc0908181611t1d007ed4rfb30fdb274cdad5a@mail.gmail.com> <96334324-3506-4CC5-BDCA-704A4A8ECBC1@SUN.com> <615303.48339.qm@web54402.mail.yahoo.com> <7F89E4B3-01B7-4A3C-BD91-40F89B060597@dslextreme.com> <71e1b5740908190023o4ea91be1o51a6c0a80ca63b3@mail.gmail.com> <8DAE0467-1E61-44E6-A026-2F21BD7B7712@SUN.com> <4A8C2FD0.7040306@rowe-clan.net> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:15:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Joe Schaefer Subject: Re: Making up policy on the fly To: general@incubator.apache.org In-Reply-To: <4A8C2FD0.7040306@rowe-clan.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org ----- Original Message ---- > From: "William A. Rowe, Jr." > To: general@incubator.apache.org > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 1:01:04 PM > Subject: Re: Making up policy on the fly > > Craig L Russell wrote: > > > > On Aug 19, 2009, at 12:23 AM, ant elder wrote: > >> > >> +1. And i'd go further and say while the ASF does not have a clear > >> policy on something that is an ASF issue then the IPMC should not be > >> trying to make up our own, and, we should be trying to shield > >> poddlings from these ambiguities. > > > > I'd go exactly the other direction. > > > > The fact that policy has "should" instead of "must" tells me that best > > practice is to do the "should" but for historical reasons, it's not a > > requirement. Historically some PMCs have not done the "should" and we > > can't go back and change history, but going forward, projects "should" > > comply. > > > > The incubator should be the place where "should" becomes "must" so as to > > align newcomers to Apache with best practice. If there's some very good > > reason for a podling to eschew best practice, then let's hear it. > > Exactly. The incubator enforces Best Practices even when these are poorly > documented or incomplete, and discusses why they should be normalized. > > Quit looking at the exceptions; "but the Poo project does it this way!"; > because Poo might have it wrong, but the board isn't compelled at this > time to fix it because the fix might do more harm than good. > > In the meantime, we have dozens of projects who are here to learn the > *right* way to build code and communities in collaborative, meritocratic > manner that survives competitors working together on the same code, and > from the mistakes of other projects. E.g. it is the board's opinion that > @author tags harm the evolution of software, adding individual 'ownership' > to pieces of code which are the project's now. Exceptions were granted > to not disrupt *existing* ASF projects; there was no exception granted for > incoming projects. > > This is why mentoring is an active, not a passive task. Amen to all of the above. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org