incubator-general mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Niclas Hedhman <>
Subject Re: incorrect terminology: lead developers
Date Tue, 11 Aug 2009 03:23:17 GMT
I have had a long chat with Greg, and I think I can somewhat
understand his angle. Taken from Wikipedia;

    * Management involves power by position.
    * Leadership involves power by influence.

    * Managers administer; leaders innovate.
    * Managers ask how and when; leaders ask what and why.
    * Managers focus on systems; leaders focus on people.
    * Managers do things right; leaders do the right things.
    * Managers maintain; leaders develop.
    * Managers rely on control; leaders inspire trust.
    * Managers have short-term perspective; leaders have long-term perspective.
    * Managers accept the status-quo; leaders challenge the status-quo.
    * Managers have an eye on the bottom line; leaders have an eye on
the horizon.
    * Managers imitate; leaders originate.
    * Managers emulate the classic good soldier; leaders are their own person.
    * Managers copy; leaders show originality.

And with such backdrop, I think Greg is more of "Leader of the Race"
than the "Nation's Leader", and we undoubtedly have many of those in
various projects.

The skill is to entice others to step up and become leaders (of the
above definition) in their own right, and with asserting the negative
notions of "leadership" such as Control.

-- Niclas

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Greg Brown<> wrote:
> Apologies. I'm fired up about another discussion on the pivot-dev list and
> I'm letting it bleed over here.
> My assertion stands, though. I don't think that it is realistic to think
> that any non-trivial project can be effectively guided without some concept
> of leadership. Do others on this list share David's opinion? If so, how do
> you think such projects should be managed?
> On Aug 10, 2009, at 10:23 PM, Greg Brown wrote:
>> Ordinarily, I'd refrain from comment on a topic such as this. But I think
>> it's pretty unrealistic to consider any project, especially one of Pivot's
>> magnitude, to be practically fostered without any kind of "leader". I don't
>> claim authority, and I don't think that my vote counts any more than anyone
>> else's. However, I don't think *any* project is likely to be successful
>> without some kind of vision behind it, and, from my experience, that's
>> typically driven by a handful of individuals. Yes, there are lots of other
>> contributors without whom a project would not be successful. But to say that
>> there is no such concept as a "leading developer" is a fallacy.
>> If that's an idea that's too foreign to the ASF, then perhaps Pivot
>> doesn't belong here.
>> On Aug 10, 2009, at 9:15 PM, David Crossley wrote:
>>> This is a general comment to everyone. It is finally triggered
>>> by this month's report from Pivot.
>>> There is no such concept at the ASF as "leading developer".
>>> Yes i know that the Jira issue tracker is misleading, as it has
>>> an incorrect label on its interface: "Project Lead"
>>> Some projects get around that by referring to "Xxx Developers".
>>> However today i am not really concerned about Jira. It is the
>>> use of the term in board reports and such, that indicates an issue.
>>> -David
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> For additional commands, e-mail:

Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer - New Energy for Java

I  live here;
I  work here;
I relax here;

To unsubscribe, e-mail:
For additional commands, e-mail:

View raw message