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From Emmanuel Lecharny <>
Subject Re: Community readiness-when does it show?
Date Wed, 24 Jun 2009 08:55:01 GMT
Martijn Dashorst wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 5:42 AM, J Aaron Farr<> wrote:
>>> If a community meets all the criteria, but hasn't discovered a new
>>> committer (or two) by itself, is the community ready for graduation?
>>> If not, how can we—mentors— nudge the community to focus on this
>>> thing, without it becoming an exercise in "checking the check marks"?
>> There are at least two scenarios:
> Yup, but I'd like to add a third one:
>  - the podling has voted in a new committer, but only because the
> committer was 'discovered' by the mentors
Whoever 'discover' the new committer is irrelevent, IMO.

Now, regarding the 2 scenarii Aaron listed, the first one is probably 
the most problematic. The second one is likely not an issue, as a 
project entering incubation is generally coming from the outside with a 
community (somehow) as it should be accepted only with an existing codebase.

So if the people are relucting to vote in a contributor, it may be the 
mentor's role to suggest doing so. The reason people don't want to vote 
some new committer, beside the contribution's quality, is this 
'ownership' feeling the people have to swallow. Not easy. When you have 
worked years on a project, finally got it accepted in incubation, and 
see newcomers posting new code, it's not easy to accept the idea that 
you don't own the code anymore.
> It is hard work to keep track of contributors and identify those with
> enough merit, when you are busy solving licensing issues, releasing
> and trying to keep your project going. 
But OTOH, it's easy to track a new contributor, see if he/she is keeps 
going (just looking at the mailing list, not necessarily evaluating the 
technical merit), and at some point, just ask the committers about the 
level of quality of those contributions. Then asking for a vote, or at 
least proposing it.
> Wouldn't a community only be
> ready when they themselves are capable of looking beyond their own
> coding, contemplate what's happening in their community and take
> necessary action?
> While I understand that Mentors should prod the community into action
> at times, but shouldn't Mentors also take a step back and let the
> community become enlightened by themselves?
Well, we should not consider mentors as doers, not as flies around the 
cake. We are shepherds, here : we give directions, try to avoid 
mistakes, explain 'the apache way', and help as much as we can. If we 
don't do that, and let the community educating itself, I guess that it 
will go right in some walls more often than necessary... IMHO, of course.
> Martijn
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cordialement, regards,
Emmanuel Lécharny

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