From general-return-22027-apmail-incubator-general-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Tue May 12 19:48:16 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 6218 invoked from network); 12 May 2009 19:47:14 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (140.211.11.3) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 12 May 2009 19:47:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 92847 invoked by uid 500); 12 May 2009 19:47:13 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 92670 invoked by uid 500); 12 May 2009 19:47:13 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 92656 invoked by uid 99); 12 May 2009 19:47:13 -0000 Received: from nike.apache.org (HELO nike.apache.org) (192.87.106.230) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 12 May 2009 19:47:13 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.0 required=10.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (nike.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [192.18.43.132] (HELO sca-es-mail-1.sun.com) (192.18.43.132) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 12 May 2009 19:47:00 +0000 Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n4CJkOkA007877 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 12:46:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-version: 1.0 Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KJJ00300QP5ZN00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for general@incubator.apache.org; Tue, 12 May 2009 12:46:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-usca03-225-213.SFBay.Sun.COM ([unknown] [129.145.225.213]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KJJ00NB9QXB3T00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for general@incubator.apache.org; Tue, 12 May 2009 12:46:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 12:46:22 -0700 From: Craig L Russell Subject: Re: This problem of mine In-reply-to: <08CB8E49-E904-4C1D-89EE-AE36D8CF6468@toolazydogs.com> Sender: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM To: general@incubator.apache.org Message-id: <652137D2-60D8-4309-B9C2-0E204F94BC83@SUN.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary=Apple-Mail-152--290106149 References: <8EB750A4-D2B1-4C7C-8888-776A398D691D@toolazydogs.com> <08CB8E49-E904-4C1D-89EE-AE36D8CF6468@toolazydogs.com> X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org --Apple-Mail-152--290106149 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On May 12, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote: > > On May 12, 2009, at 11:12 AM, Craig L Russell wrote: > >> >> On May 12, 2009, at 10:56 AM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote: >> >>> >>> On May 12, 2009, at 9:06 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Alan D. Cabrera >>> > wrote: >>>>> ...I'd like someone to come up with a concise argument that >>>>> would allow me to >>>>> let this go other than "nope, it's not the same". Otherwise, I >>>>> feel that I >>>>> need to bring up a vote to put the issue to bed once and for >>>>> all.... >>>> >>>> The only thing that I can say is that from the ASF's point of view >>>> your project's name is "Apache Ki", no just "Ki". >>> >>> So, this is an interesting point. Can we change Apache Geronimo's >>> name to Apache WebSphere and get a way with it? >> >> The main point is that you and I disagree on whether FixFlyer Ki >> and Apache Ki are in the same domain. >> >> I have neither broad nor deep experience with securities trading >> systems, but I do know what financial securities are. And I claim >> that someone knowledgeable enough about computer systems to be in a >> position to evaluate software for securities trading systems, >> should know the difference between Java security and Securities >> Trading. > > I think you missed my point and that is that they are comparing > their Java security system, not the financial instruments, against > JSecurity's. Not what I said. > Both provide the same functionality where their vertical application > overlaps with our horizontal application, that is, Java security. There's no evidence of this that I can see. Maybe we're looking at different source documents? > > It is not unusual to see companies break out pieces a product line > and open source them. So I went to the FixFlyer web site yet again, and can't find any evidence that they are in the same application domain. Neither the Ki Certification web page http://www.fixflyer.com/html-files/KiCertification.html nor their pdf http://www.fixflyer.com/materials/software/Ki/FlyerKiCertification.pdf mentions the word security. Craig > > > > Regards, > Alan > >> Craig >>> >>> >>> >>>> About the actual risks associated with FixFlyer's considering that >>>> Apache Ki infringes on their trademarks, the best might be to ask >>>> legal-discuss@apache.org. >>> >>> Do we want to get into this kind of tussle straight out of the >>> gate w/ a podling that's been "using" this name for such short >>> while? >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org >>> >> >> Craig L Russell >> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo >> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com >> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp! >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org > Craig L Russell Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com P.S. A good JDO? 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