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From "James Carman" <>
Subject Re: Wicket implementation re: [VOTE] accept Olio into incubation
Date Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:39:46 GMT

Thanks.  Where is the code now?  Igor Vaynberg (from the Wicket
development team) and I (a lowly Wicket user :) are both interested in
working on a wicket implementation (hopefully together).  If we could
see what it currently entails, we may be able to get started.

It might be nice if Olio itself could provide some common "stuff"
(language-specific of course) that any implementation would need such
as perhaps some Repository/DAO interfaces and their implementations
using different technologies (hibernate, jdo, ibatis, jpa, cayenne,
etc.).  That way, creating an implementation using your web framework
of choice could just grab that stuff "off the shelf" and run with it.
If we use common code for some parts of the implementations, then we
take that variable out of the equation and we can see how the
frameworks themselves stack up against one another.  Perhaps even
setting up a web services-based implementation of the "domain" might
be a good way to keep it separated.  Just a thought.

I wouldn't mind helping out on Olio during incubation (and after
incubation).  I've never worked on an incubating project, but I am a
PMC member on Commons and I'm the PMC chair for HiveMind, so I have
some experience with the "apache way."  I'm not currently a member of
the Incubator PMC (I think I just have to ask to join, though).  Would
that help?


On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 12:54 AM, Craig L Russell <> wrote:
> Hi James,
> It's great that Wicket has an interest in Olio. It's probably too late to
> update the wiki page, but folks reading this thread will see your comments.
> I'd encourage you to start working on the Wicket impl during incubation.
> Hopefully once the code arrives it will be a bit more clear what an
> alternative impl has to do to fit into the structure of Olio. And if it
> isn't clear, file a JIRA. ;-)
> Thanks,
> Craig
> On Sep 23, 2008, at 5:01 PM, James Carman wrote:
>> +1 (non-binding)
>> I've informed the Wicket team about this incubator request and there
>> is interest in providing a wicket-based implementation (wicket along
>> with differing ORM technologies of course, like JPA and Hibernate; the
>> way I envision it, we'll use profiles in maven to turn on/off
>> different implementations).  When do you think it'd be a good time to
>> add implementations to the mix?  During incubation?  After it
>> graduates?  Is there a requirements document or something for
>> applications wishing to "implement" the Olio example application?
>> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Matt Hogstrom <> wrote:
>>> +1  (binding)
>>> Note: I updated the proposal on the Wiki with my normal e-mail account
>>> ( instead of my work e-mail ( since
>>> my
>>> mentoring of this project is unrelated to any aspect of my work
>>> responsibilities).
>>> On Sep 23, 2008, at 10:33 AM, Craig L Russell wrote:
>>>> Please vote on accepting Olio into incubation.
>>>> The proposal can be found at:
>>>> [This proposal was formerly known as Web20Kit]
>>>> The text of the proposal:
>>>> OlioProposal
>>>> Abstract
>>>> Apache Olio is a web 2.0 toolkit to help developers evaluate the
>>>> suitability, functionality and performance of various web technologies
>>>> by
>>>> implementing a reasonably complex application in several different
>>>> technologies.
>>>> Proposal
>>>> Olio will develop an example application to understand the benefits,
>>>> performance, and scalability of popular web technologies. Multiple
>>>> implementations of the application are planned - each providing the same
>>>> functionality but staying true to the philosophy of its base
>>>> language/framework.
>>>> Background
>>>> Most web 2.0 sites today use open source languages and frameworks such
>>>> as
>>>> PHP, Ruby on Rails, and Java EE to develop their applications.
>>>> Deployments
>>>> of these applications also use popular open source servers such as
>>>> Apache
>>>> httpd, Tomcat, MySQL, Memcache, and Glassfish. Many other
>>>> servers/technologies such as lighttpd, mogileFS, mongrels, JRuby are
>>>> also
>>>> gaining popularity.
>>>> With the myriad technologies available, it is not easy to understand how
>>>> they differ, especially in terms of performance and scalability. With
>>>> varied
>>>> levels of documentation available for some open source applications, it
>>>> is
>>>> also quite difficult for a web 2.0 startup to understand the correct
>>>> usage
>>>> of these technologies so that they don't become a bottleneck as their
>>>> site
>>>> grows.
>>>> Rationale
>>>> Olio is a toolkit that will attempt to address the above issues.
>>>> What it does
>>>> Olio defines an example web 2.0 application (the initial implementation
>>>> uses an events site somewhat like and provides three
>>>> implementations: PHP, Java EE, and Ruby on Rails. The toolkit will also
>>>> define ways to drive load against the application in order to measure
>>>> performance.
>>>> As developers join the project, they can implement the same application
>>>> using their favorite web frameworks and compare their implementations to
>>>> others.
>>>> What you can learn from it
>>>> a) Understand how to use various web 2.0 technologies such as AJAX,
>>>> memcached, mogileFS etc. in the creation of your own application. Use
>>>> the
>>>> code in the application to understand the subtle complexities involved
>>>> and
>>>> how to get around issues with these technologies.
>>>> b) Evaluate the differences in the implementations: PHP, Ruby on Rails,
>>>> Java EE, and other contributed implementations to understand which might
>>>> best work for your situation.
>>>> c) Within each language implementation, evaluate different
>>>> infrastructure
>>>> technologies by changing the servers used (e.g: apache vs lighttpd,
>>>> MySQL vs
>>>> PostgreSQL, Ruby vs Jruby etc.)
>>>> d) Drive load against the application to evaluate the performance and
>>>> scalability of the chosen platform.
>>>> e) Experiment with different algorithms (e.g. memcache locking, a
>>>> different DB access API) by replacing portions of code in the
>>>> application.
>>>> A robust, community-developed standard implementations of a web 2.0
>>>> application using different technologies will enable developers to
>>>> compare
>>>> and contrast these technologies in a manner that does not exist today.
>>>> By
>>>> providing excellent sample implementations of a concrete application
>>>> that is
>>>> available to everyone, we will enable faster and easier application
>>>> development for users. Although we list three implementations in this
>>>> proposal, we encourage others to come up with many more using other
>>>> language
>>>> stacks and/or frameworks e.g. Spring framework, Python etc.
>>>> Current Status
>>>> This is a new project with some sample not-ready-for-prime-time code.
>>>> Meritocracy
>>>> The initial developers are very familiar with meritocratic open source
>>>> development, both at Apache and elsewhere. Apache was chosen
>>>> specifically
>>>> because the initial developers want to encourage this style of
>>>> development
>>>> for the project.
>>>> Community
>>>> Olio seeks to create developer and user communities during incubation.
>>>> Core Developers
>>>> The initial core developers are Sun Microsystems, Inc. employees, and
>>>> faculty and students at UC Berkeley. We hope to expand this very
>>>> quickly.
>>>> Alignment
>>>> The developers of the Olio want to work with the Apache Software
>>>> Foundation specifically because Apache has proven to provide a strong
>>>> foundation and set of practices for community-based development.
>>>> Known RisksOrphaned products
>>>> This project has a lot of enthusiasm among the core developers, has
>>>> ongoing development, and is not orphaned.
>>>> Inexperience with Open Source
>>>> The initial developers are well-versed in open source methodologies and
>>>> practices.
>>>> Homogenous Developers
>>>> The initial group of developers is from two organizations. We would like
>>>> to expand this and that is a primary reason for bringing this project to
>>>> Apache.
>>>> Reliance on Salaried Developers
>>>> Although part of the initial development team are students, the core
>>>> developers are employed by Sun Microsystems.
>>>> Relationships with Other Apache Products
>>>> None in particular, except that Apache HTTPD is the most common place to
>>>> run PHP, and which the initial PHP implementation uses.
>>>> A Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand
>>>> We believe in the processes, systems, and framework Apache has put in
>>>> place. The brand is nice, but is not why we wish to come to Apache.
>>>> DocumentationInitial Source
>>>> Sun Microsystems Inc. intends to donate code for their PHP
>>>> implementation
>>>> of the sample events application as well as code to drive load against
>>>> the
>>>> application. UC Berkeley intends to donate code for the Ruby on Rails
>>>> implementation.
>>>> This code is still a work in progress and will be provided primarily as
>>>> a
>>>> starting place for a much more robust, community- developed
>>>> implementation.
>>>> External DependenciesRequired Resources
>>>> Developer mailing lists<moin-email.png>
>>>> <moin-email.png> <moin-email.png>
>>>> <moin-email.png>
>>>> A subversion repository
>>>> A JIRA issue tracker
>>>> Initial Committers
>>>>      •
>>>> Akara Sucharitakul <<moin-email.png>>
>>>> Subramanyam <<moin-email.png>> Sheetal
>>>> <<moin-email.png>> Binu John
>>>> <<moin-email.png>> Kim Lichong <<moin-email.png>
>>>>> William Sobel <<moin-email.png>
>>>>> Arthur Klepchukov <<moin-email.png>
>>>>> Craig Russell <<moin-email.png>>
>>>> SponsorsChampion
>>>>      •
>>>> Craig Russell <<moin-email.png>>
>>>> Nominated Mentors
>>>>      •
>>>> Craig Russell <<moin-email.png>> Henning
>>>> Schmiedehausen <<moin-email.png>>
>>>> Hogstrom
>>>> <<moin-email.png>> Rick Hillegas
>>>> <<moin-email.png>Richard.Hillegas@Sun.COM>
>>>> Sponsoring Entity
>>>> The Apache Incubator.
>>>> Craig L Russell
>>>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System
>>>> 408 276-5638
>>>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Craig L Russell
> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System
> 408 276-5638
> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!

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