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From Daniel Kulp <>
Subject Re: Incubator Maven repo [WAS Re: [VOTE] [POLICY] Allow extra release distribution channels like the central Maven repository]
Date Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:17:46 GMT
On Wednesday 17 September 2008 8:05:40 pm Henning Schmiedehausen wrote:
> > Thus:
> > If the central maven repository maintainers (Maven PMC) decide to put
> > incubator artifacts into their repository without a click through "this
> > is incubator code" disclaimer, we'd have no legal reason to say no.   The
> > Apache License allows them to do so.
> The Incubator PMC controls the policy on how podlings release. Not the
> upstream policy. And this policy says: "You keep your releases separated
> from the official releases".

I'm not disputing that.    Currently, podling maven artifacts go to:
and non-podling releases go to: 
(which is now a completely inaccurate name :-(   Should be 
m2-release-repository or similar)
They are separate.

The difference right now is that a non-incubator third party (Maven PMC) has 
decided to sync one of those trees into their repository.    From what I can 
see, there is no way an INCUBATOR policy could prevent another third party 
from deciding to also sync the other tree in as well.     Projects don't 
release to central.   They release to one of the above directories and Maven 
pulls those into central.   (as part of that, the maven team checks the sigs 
to make sure they are OK, etc...)

Another example....    My friend sets up a Nexus repository manager for his 
users.   He adds the incubator repo to the nexus config as he needs a single 
thing out of there.   Then, any users using my Nexus instance will get 
incubator artifacts without setting the incubator repository in their 
settings.xml.   My friend is a third party, incubator definitely cannot tell 
him not to do that.

> Allowing the usage of a maven repo for
> publishing these is a privilege, not a right.

OK.   What "RIGHT" does the Incubator PMC have to tell the Maven PMC (or 
RedHat or Debian or CPAN or ....) to not put incubator artifacts in their 
repo?  Infrastructure probably would have the right if the method maven used 
caused bandwith issues or similar.  Block IP type thing.  They do the same 
thing for "svn abuse".  

I re-iterate: projects do NOT release to central.   They deploy to a project 
or organization specific location and the MAVEN folks sync that into central 
if that location meets their requirements and the needs of their users.   
Basically, do the maven folks "trust" that location to not be full of crap?    
(and can they trust that the stuff in that repo has a license compatible with 
putting it in central?)

One example of that NOT being the case is the repo.   Sun is 
notoriously bad at putting crap in the repo.   Thus, the Maven folks do not 
sync that repo in anymore.   They tried at one point, but it caused too many 
issues.  So they don't now.

That's basically why I think the vote is relatively irrelevant.  I voted +1 
cause I personally think the "policy" is bad for the incubator and makes it 
harder for podlings to develop their communities and thus graduate, but I 
also think the "policy" is completely irrelevant as it's not enforceable by 
the Incubator PMC.   The Incubator PMC CAN require the podlings to keep their 
releases in a separate repo on, but they cannot require 
third parties to not sync it into their repos.

Daniel Kulp

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