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From "Davanum Srinivas" <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Do we really need an incubator?
Date Mon, 07 Jul 2008 22:59:20 GMT

Seriously, Can you please give me one concrete  instance where a user
gave up because it was too hard?

Again, Are u stating that removing this restriction would have reduced
the time taken to graduate from 2 years to 1 year?

We are *NOT* here to rubber stamp external code. Which is what we will become.

My feeling is that pmc members are taking their mentor role more
prominence over incubator pmc role which is to make sure we setup
meaningful mechanisms to make sure all aspects are balanced.

In this specific case, a trivial road block has been lifted and
incubator is no longer what it is supposed to be. There are no longer
any checks/balances in the system,

So we should just promote IP Clearance as the primary mechanism and
get existing pmc's or even this PMC to just go ahead and rubber stamp
code and get it over with.


On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 5:49 PM, Daniel Kulp <> wrote:
> On Jul 7, 2008, at 5:09 PM, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>> Sorry...Need to take this off my chest before the official VOTE.
>> Looking at the maven repo thread, begs the question. Do we really need
>> an incubator?
>> Isn't it just a IP Clearance SVN now once people have their way with
>> no distinction at all between incubator and non-incubator code?
>> What incentives are there left to graduate? How come a little bit of
>> pain that makes something obvious to end users is such a no-no? Why is
>> it such a big deal to remove one tiny pebble in their path? A lot of
>> folks have made it thru...including CXF. gathering users on the merits
>> of their code/community. It's not like the pebble stopped users from
>> trying things out. So what's the big deal?
> Honestly, I think CXF would have graduated significantly sooner if the
> central maven repo was used.   We specifically did not do a lot of "maven"
> things (like creating archtypes and such) due to the extra difficulty in
> using those things.   We don't yet use maven for any of the samples/demos,
> etc....    It IS a major barrier for a lot people so we didn't concentrate
> on it.   Had the code gone to central, we could have worked on that as well
> which would have opened up new opportunities for "mavenites" to get
> involved.
> So, my question is, if Apache is about "Community over code", why are we
> putting up barriers to getting the code if that is also creating barriers to
> building the community?   If the code is a proper release (legally OK,
> etc...), making it hard to use/get hinders the building of the community.
> Do we like projects taking 2 years to graduate or would we prefer that time
> to be shorter?
> So, to answer your question:  yes, I think the incubator is important.   It
> does legal vetting, but it also makes sure the communities are acting
> proper, learning apache ways, etc....   But the incubator should HELP the
> communities grow, not hinder it.
> Dan
>> My 2 cents,
>> Thanks,
>> dims
>> --
>> Davanum Srinivas ::
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> Daniel Kulp
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