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From "Martijn Dashorst" <>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Empire-db
Date Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:30:13 GMT
On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 11:32 PM, Rainer Döbele <> wrote:
> For the current community's needs Empire-db is already quite mature hence
> there has not been a lot of demand for new features or bug-fixes recently.
> This may change with a larger community which is what we're looking for.

This reminds me of a saying posed here @apache: "bad code generates
good community" (or something similar). When a project is mature, and
doesn't have a list of issues and especially new features that need to
be solved it is hard to attract new developers. The market for ORM
solutions is already crowded, so you'll probably need to convince
folks of the benefits of the project.

> So to answer your question: The project is NOT "done" it's just awaiting new
> challenges and new participants.

I find this alarming: when there are no new challenges awaiting the
project, why join Apache? The code is stable and mature, you can just
leave it at There doesn't seem to be a plan other than "let's
join Apache and hope the community grows automatically". If the
current core developers don't have challenges for the project, how
would the community grow?

I've done some googling, and the only references to empire-db are from
the incubator list and the site itself. Is the project known outside
these 2 groups?

I'm not convinced yet that incubating at Apache is the best thing for
empire-db. I think that seeking out new ideas, users and (future)
committers for the project is the highest priority. Of course this can
be done whilest incubating, but having incubator plastered all over
the project won't attract more users or developers.

Some mild marketing such as posting an article on javalobby
( or to get some publicity will help
the project more than becoming an Apache project.


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