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From Davanum Srinivas <>
Subject Re: maven repository
Date Fri, 30 May 2008 15:29:09 GMT
Hash: SHA1


please remember, not all incubator projects make it! i've personally been a mentor on a few
projects that were shutdown
for various reasons.

- -- dims

James Carman wrote:
| The bottom line is that incubator projects haven't (yet) gone through
| all the hoops necessary to become official ASF projects.  So, if they
| are published to the main repository, that is in a way saying that the
| ASF endorses the software.  Since it has not graduated from the
| incubator, the ASF doesn't yet endorse it.  This is the way I see it
| at least.
| On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Les Hazlewood <> wrote:
|> Noel,
|> Could you please help me understand the fundamental reasons why this
|> is important to the IPMC?
|> I mean, I as an end-user could care less about if the dependency
|> artifact is in incubation or not - as long as it solves the problems
|> in the way the development team deems necessary, all I want to do is
|> just have be accessible to me immediately.  I don't care where it
|> comes from.  If it requires intervention on my part, I view that as a
|> major pain, especially if it can knowingly be avoided.  I would want
|> things to be as automatic and hands-off as possible.
|> I'm just genuinely trying to understand why the distinction is necessary.
|> Thanks for clarifying my naivety,
|> Les
|> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Noel J. Bergman <> wrote:
|>> Robert Burrell Donkin wrote:
|>>> it has now been clearly established that we need to move the
|>>> repository. we're now just asking: where?
|>> As I said, Brett Porter's proposal, made early on in the thread, seemed
|>> satisfactory.
|>>> asking podlings to publish through a secondary repository is both
|>>> annoying and ineffective at making it explicit to people that
|>>> they are using artifacts under incubation. this measure cuts
|>>> against the grain of maven.
|>> I really don't care what cuts across the grain of Maven.  I do care about
|>> the established principle that people must make a deliberate decision to use
|>> Incubator artifacts.  If Maven would finally support enforcing signing of
|>> artifacts, as they have been asked to do for years, we could use an
|>> Incubator-specific signing key, forcing people to approve the use of
|>> Incubator artifacts, regardless of download location.
|>> Rather than relax the principle to accomodate a defective tool, if Maven
|>> cannot solve this problem, I'd be more inclined to ban the use of maven
|>> repositories for Incubator artifacts.  That is how strongly I feel about the
|>> principle.
|>> By the way, there has been some talk in Infrastructure about shutting down
|>> the ASF's repository entirely if Maven does not provide enforcement of
|>> signed artifacts, due to security concerns.
|>> Look back over the years of debate on this issue, and I believe that you
|>> will find I've been very consistent.  I want Incubator projects to be able
|>> to perform releases in order to grow their (developer) community, but we
|>> also require that people be aware of the fact that they are not using
|>> official ASF code, as noted by the disclaimer.
|>>> an easy and effective way to ensure that users know that they are using
|>>> an artifact from the incubator would be to ensure that the group or
|>>> artifact ID includes this information.
|>> End users don't read the POM.  They just use it.  So that is no solution at
|>> all.  The signing approach would be, IMO, a reasonable solution.  It would
|>> solve Les' issue -- users would simply have to agree to install the
|>> Incubator-signed artifact(s), and thereafter they'd be fine.
|>>        --- Noel
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