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From "Marnie McCormack" <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Community diversity (again)
Date Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:06:35 GMT
Hi All,

I can definitely see the value in having rules that allow for discussion and
some subjective assessment of podlings by the IPMC.

I think some additional detail (best practice style ?) around what a diverse
community looks like from various angles would be really helpful for podling
projects. Some of the angles discussed recently came as a surprise to me and
it'd be good to see what other people's suggestions would be.

For example:

   - Committer activity over a given period i.e. what should this look
   like, how diverse should this be, what would a problematic position be, on
   trunk/branches etc ?
   - PMC make up. We've taken a slightly different approach to PMC
   composition (no bar to entry beyond the committer bar, but on a committer
   requested basis), thinking it applicable. Recent discussions have
   highlighted that the PMC make up is perhaps more important than general
   committer composition on a project and thus we should strive to make it
   diverse by encouraging (nominating) committers on to the PMC for diversity
   reasons ?
   - Code vs documentation weighting. Some projects have contributers
   whose focus is specialised in a particular area like documentation. What do
   we include when considering diversity from this perspective i.e.
   document changes, svn commits, JIRAs created, release management tasks
   - List contribution. I think this one is tricky to measure, as we all
   have different ways of working. Some of us (me :-) speak a lot, others less
   so but perhaps in a more precise fashion and are effective. We include list
   contribution as one of the factors assessed before committer-ship. I'd have
   hoped that would be enough, but maybe not all projects assess this in the
   same way ?

In conclusion, I can see that no objective bar applies in some of these
areas. I do think that the IPMC (and others) views on what a good example
looks like or what some differing, but diverse, projects look like would be

I've left out 'legally independent' (argh) but I thought that the idea of
salaried % was a good one.

Maybe there's some scope for a set of measures and a guide around the
must-haves & the nice-to-haves and some idea that you must not fail the
diversity check on more than x nice-to-haves ?


On 3/27/08, Thilo Goetz <> wrote:
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > Endre StĂžlsvik wrote:
> >> Thilo Goetz wrote:
> >>> Make it absolutely clear that the diversity of the community
> >>> will be judged by the IPMC based on the overall conduct of
> >>> the project, mailing list, commit activity etc.
> >
> > I'm not sure that "diversity" and "conduct" are really mapping that
> way.  A non-diverse community can conduct itself properly and well, but
> still not be diverse.  And although conduct is important, we do place value
> on demonstrated diversity, as well.  I'm afraid that we can give you
> examples of where one or the other was present, but arguably not both, and
> we've had to deal with the consequences later.  So we all try to learn from
> prior experiences, and apply that in our current and future judgments.
> My quote is a bit out of context like that.  What I meant to
> convey was that it is not sufficient that there *be* diversity
> (in the sense that 3 independent committers exist).  The business
> of the project must be conducted by a diverse set of people.  At
> least that's what I got out of the recent discussions.
> --Thilo
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