incubator-general mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Statements from Qpid mentors would help me decide... [WAS Re: [VOTE] Apache Qpid Graduation as TLP]
Date Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:37:09 GMT
On Sunday 23 March 2008, Marnie McCormack wrote:
> All,
>
> If I have understood correctly the legal process which we've followed
> to join the Apache project, then I am 'legally independent' as are
> several of the other Qpid committers under discussion, as I have
> signed an ICLA and am personally responsible/liable for all of my
> contributions to Qpid.
>
> If this is not the spirit of the rule then I think it'd be better
> stated in different terms to make it clearer and this debate less
> subjective perhaps.

Directly from the graduation checklist:  (which, BTW, Qpid has not filled 
out.   That's another issue, albiet a minor one.)


The legal definition of independent is long and boring, but basically it 
means that there is no binding relationship between the individuals, 
such as a shared employer, that is capable of overriding their free will 
as individuals, directly or indirectly.


Dan


> For what its worth, Qpid has attracted several other independent
> committers since project inception. Somewhat unfortunately, after
> making significant contribution, they're all tied up with their 'day
> job' commitments at the moment (from the pre-graduation karma
> discussions on our list).
>
> Speaking of the Apache way, I don't much enjoy being singled out for
> personal discussion. The position of some of the committers on this
> project is, by necessity, what it is. It's not some Machiavellian
> attempt to subvert the process, truly.
>
> We're all trying to work together on a worthwhile project which we
> know people are able to get benefit from.
>
> Regards,
> Marnie
> Qpid Team
>
> On 3/23/08, Daniel Kulp <dkulp@apache.org> wrote:
> > On Friday 21 March 2008, Paul Fremantle wrote:
> > > Yoav
> > >
> > > I have to say I think you have given a very good analysis. I think
> > > that QPid has come a huge way towards Apacheness. Diversity is not
> > > as great as it could be but meets the Incubator criteria.
> >
> > Huh?  The graduation guide says "there are at least 3 legally
> > independent committers" and I don't see that with Qpid.   EVERY
> > committer (except for the 2 mentors) on the qpid status page [1] can
> > easily be traced to be associated with either RedHat or JP Morgan
> > Chase.   For example, if you check the credits page of the AMQP 0-10
> > spec [2] and look at the credits page (page xi), it associates
> > EVERYONE on the list to either RedHat or JPMC except for:
> > Jim Meyering
> > Marnie McCormack
> > Nuno Santos
> > And you can trace those three from:
> > Marnie McCormack - original qpid proposal [3]
> > Nuno Santos - Linked in profile [4]
> > Jim Meyering - Other redhad stuff [5]
> >
> > Thus, with 100% of the committers directly associated with just 2
> > companies, I DON'T feel that it meets the Incubator criteria of 3. 
> > Yes, they've done a good job trying to hide their affiliations.  But
> > the fact remains that the affiliations are there and can be found
> > with very little work.   I tried to get the community to clarify the
> > above duing the discussions, but they didn't address it at all, or
> > at least to my satisfaction.
> >
> > IMO, if there is even a question of diversity at all, that warrants
> > a -1. From my experience, there isn't a compelling reason to speed
> > them out of the incubator if there is a question like this.   Lets
> > make sure that they CAN address the diversity issue first.  It looks
> > like they are working on it, which is great, but lets make sure they
> > will follow up on that and get it done.  That's an important part of
> > the incubators job.
> >
> > Anyway, I'd vote -1, but my vote wouldn't be binding.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> > [1] http://incubator.apache.org/projects/qpid.html
> > [2]
> >
> > https://jira.amqp.org/confluence/download/attachments/720900/amqp.0-
> >10.pdf?version=1 [3] http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/QpidProposal
> > [4] http://www.linkedin.com/in/nunofsantos
> > [5]
> > http://hany.sk/~hany/RPM/f-8-x86_64/qpidc-devel-0.2-5.fc7.i386.html
> >
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Yoav Shapira
> > > <yoavs@yoavshapira.com>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Robert Burrell Donkin
> > > >
> > > >  <robertburrelldonkin@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >  > On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 6:55 PM, Carl Trieloff
> >
> > <cctrieloff@redhat.com> wrote:
> > > > >  >  At this point the Apache Qpid community with support from
> > > > >  > its mentors feels that
> > > > >  >
> > > >  >  >  it is ready to graduate to an official top level project
> > > >  >  > at Apache
> > > > >
> > > > >  but another voice asks: are they really ready today? has the
> > > > > IPMC
> > > > >
> > > >  >  fully equipped them for the chanlleges ahead? do they really
> > > >  >  understand how to mentor new independent developers into
> > > >  > committers and PMCers? is the diversity sufficient to have
> > > >  > learnt how to have disagreements on technical matters whilst
> > > >  > retaining community spirit?
> > > >
> > > >  It's a hard call for me as well.  The technical bits are all
> > > > there, processes followed, paperwork filed, etc.  More
> > > > importantly, the qpid community has been open, receptive to
> > > > feedback from everyone inside and outside their group, welcoming
> > > > to new opinions from new people, and respectful of ASF spirit,
> > > > not just its letter.  There are disagreements and debates on
> > > > various technical matters without hurting the community.  That's
> > > > why I support their graduation.
> > > >
> > > >  It would have been really nice if one or two more committers
> > > > from new organizations had been added during the previous few
> > > > months, but that didn't happen.  But I don't think the fact the
> > > > committers come from a small set of organizations necessarily
> > > > means there's no diversity. And I don't want to introduce
> > > > artificial requirements. The "are they really ready" question is
> > > > subjective by definition, and it's a good one, but I still vote
> > > > +1 ;)
> > > >
> > > >  Yoav
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >---- - To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > > general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org For additional
> > > > commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> > --
> > J. Daniel Kulp
> > Principal Engineer, IONA
> > dkulp@apache.org
> > http://www.dankulp.com/blog
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org



-- 
J. Daniel Kulp
Principal Engineer, IONA
dkulp@apache.org
http://www.dankulp.com/blog

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org


Mime
View raw message