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From Endre StĂžlsvik <>
Subject Re: [Proposal] NoNameYet - Pluto
Date Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:19:51 GMT
Stefan Hepper wrote:

> It is not true that after the JSR was final everything stopped. In fact 
> once we had finished 1.0 there was still work done to get to a more 
> stable 1.0.1 release. After that the pluto community re-structed the 
> code which led to the pluto 1.1 stream, so you can see that it was an 
> active community not only some code drop.

I mentioned this.

JSR 168 itself was "Final Release" on 27 Oct, 2003.

Wading through the repository:

The first entry of Pluto in Subversion is Tue Sep 30 14:03:01 2003 
(cvs2svn import).

Pluto 1.0.1-RC1 was tagged Thu Oct 7 09:25:40 2004.
Pluto 1.0.1-RC4 was tagged Mon Jul 25 01:06:54 2005.
Pluto 1.0.1 was "ReTagged" Mon Oct 10 18:29:33 2005.

1.0.1, the first minor-revision above the inital code drop, being a fix 
of the most crazy bugs, was tagged more than two years after the inital 
code drop.

Pluto 1.1.0 was tagged "[maven-scm] copy for tag pluto-1.1.0" Sun Feb 11 
17:29:23 2007.

1.1.0 was, IIRC, a larger refactor to make the code somewhat more 

If the tags don't lie, the 1.1.0 came out less than a year ago, 3 years 
and 4 months after the initial drop. This time period isn't really 
extreme in itself, but compared to the developer activity on a project 
that literally screamed for help, it becomes sad.

The following fact I'm not _quite_ certain of, and it takes a bit too 
much time to search the archives to prove it (this isn't exactly some 
court), but I do believe I have my words intact if I state that there 
wasn't much involvement in any of those versions after the initial dump 
to come from any of you IBM folks. Repos and mailing list archives are 
available. And for my comments of code quality - I might be wrong, I 
might be a nit-picker, or I might just be a bad coder - but the initial 
drop and all the versions are still there in the repository: have a 

There might be some tools better than ViewVC to run through the 
repository and mailing lists to get a better picture of these facts. But 
AFAIK, and I've been lurking lots (due to the fact that I had interests 
in a embeddable standards compliant container at the time), Pluto has 
*never* had much of an active community. I believe most of the 1.1.0 was 
done by one man.
   Had the initial code been of quite a bit better quality, or had it 
had quite a bit more backing from the droppers to bootstrap any 
community, it had at least had ONE more active developer, that I can 
guarantee. I tried, but I could just not start anywhere with that code, 
and I could not start doing a complete rewrite of that dump on my own 
(I'd actually rather start from scratch, to be honest).

> Also in my view pluto was a success, take a look at all the projects 
> using the pluto container:

Compared to the amount of portals, this isn't exactly amazing. That IBM 
doesn't use it itself (I belive?), an Apache product which they 
themselves created, is quite telling, compared to the fact that IBM 
isn't exactly shy of using lots of other Apache products in their 
products and services.


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