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From "Noel J. Bergman" <>
Subject RE: To vote or not to vote
Date Fri, 08 Jun 2007 19:18:39 GMT
Craig Russell wrote:

> > Does being a Mentor grant any special powers/rights?

> Well, yes.  There are a dozen references to the Mentor role in Policy
> [1]. The responsibilities, requirements, karma grants are all defined
> in Policy.

Yes, but read it again.  Consider: there are no new rights granted.  There
are new responsibilities, but the person accepting those responsibilities
already has all of the rights necessary to do them, by virtue of being a
PMC Member.

> > Is it really just a term for a PMC Member who is actively engaged
> > in the mutual act of mentoring the community?

> Then we have a policy update to do to remove the formal definition of
> a Mentor. About ten sentences. And then who does what we currently
> define Mentors to do?

What a Mentor does still needs that definition.  But a Mentor is a PMC
Member who is doing those things, and all of the rights are attached to
the PMC Member role.  The responsibilities are those of a PMC Member
accepting a Mentor role on a podling.

Being a Mentor is very much analogous to being a Release Manager, IMO, in
that it is a role that an individual undertakes on behalf of the PMC as a

> > Now, let us say that you have a vote.  The result is 6 to 4.
> > Majority, even 60%.  But I'd hardly consider that a consensus.
> > On the other hand,  if there is a clear consensus, do we always
> > need to explicitly count it?

> I think the term is "lazy consensus" which is not used to describe
> anything beyond the acceptance of the podling by the incubator.

We don't use Lazy Consensus to accept a podling, we use mandatory majority
approval (in HTTP Server terms, q.v.,

But, yes, in a sense this is lazy approval.

> > Consider: do we need to vote for a release manager?  The answer is
> > no, by the way.

> The release manager is not a defined Incubator role. The Mentor is.

It was an analogy.  The question is whether or not it even requires a
declared vote at all, unless someone raises the issue.  Sometimes projects
get a bit vote happy, and then complain about the process overhead,
without realizing that the undesired overhead was entirely self-imposed.

	--- Noel

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