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From Craig L Russell <Craig.Russ...@Sun.COM>
Subject Re: To vote or not to vote
Date Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:33:43 GMT
Hi Noel,

On Jun 7, 2007, at 10:24 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:

>> Cool :) So should we have a vote on ode-dev then?
> <<shrug>>
> Sometimes I think that we get a bit vote happy.  Is this really  
> something
> that is in need of a vote?  E.g., is this a policy decision, karma  
> grant or
> code release?  Does being a Mentor grant any special powers/rights?

Well, yes.  There are a dozen references to the Mentor role in Policy 
[1]. The responsibilities, requirements, karma grants are all defined  
in Policy.

> Is it really just a term for a PMC Member who is actively engaged  
> in the mutual
> act of mentoring the community?

Then we have a policy update to do to remove the formal definition of  
a Mentor. About ten sentences. And then who does what we currently  
define Mentors to do?
> Now, let us say that you have a vote.  The result is 6 to 4.   
> Majority, even
> 60%.  But I'd hardly consider that a consensus.  On the other hand,  
> if there
> is a clear consensus, do we always need to explicitly count it?

I think the term is "lazy consensus" which is not used to describe  
anything beyond the acceptance of the podling by the incubator.

There seems to be consensus here (myself included by the way) that  
assignment of a Mentor to an existing podling should be done by lazy  
consensus of both the Incubator PMC and the podling PPMC.

Here's a paragraph that we can use to update the Policy, under  
Incubation Activities:

New Mentors
If the podling has a need for additional Mentors, additional Mentors  
can be assigned to the podling. The new Mentors must be incubator PMC  
members. The new Mentors are proposed by a member of the podling  
community and are accepted if no objections are raised by the podling  
PPMC or incubator PMC within 72 hours. If objections are raised then  
a formal vote is taken and majority rules.

> Consider: do we need to vote for a release manager?  The answer is  
> no, by
> the way.

The release manager is not a defined Incubator role. The Mentor is.

> We vote for a release, though.  We require a community decision on
> the release, in large measure to protect individuals.

The release process is defined in Policy, including the vote  


[1] grep entor site-author/incubation/Incubation_Policy.xml
     <li><a href="#Mentor">Mentor</a></li>
           <li>the Mentors, nominated by the Sponsor, who will guide  
the Candidate
through the Incubation Process. At least one nominated Mentor MUST be
         <p>The nominated Mentors MAY be immediately accepted by the  
PMC. However the Incubator PMC MAY also suggest replacement Mentors.
The Incubator PMC has the final choice of Mentors.
         <p>Upon acceptance by the Incubator PMC, the Podling's  
Mentor becomes a
a <a href='#Mentor'>Mentor</a> SHOULD initiate the creation of:
           Your project's mentors are able to undertake many of the  
<p>The Mentors MUST ensure that the "project status" document is up to
         <p>At least one week prior to each review, the Mentor MUST  
produce a
         <p>If the Podling or Mentor disagree with an assessment,  
they MAY
include a details of what the Podling and/or Mentor is disputing, and
the request and provide feedback to the Podling and Mentor. Such
         <p>Should the Podling and/or Mentor still disagree with the  
contents of
           <li>the reason the Podling and/or Mentor still dispute the  
         <p>The Mentor SHALL review the contents of the continuation
Mentor or the Sponsor, however only the Incubator PMC is authorised
           <li>The mentor or other member updates to  
add a link to
           <li>The mentor or other member adds the new PMC to the  
board reporting
       <section id="Mentor">
         <p>A Podling has one or more Mentors, one of which MUST be  
an Apache Member.
Mentors are chosen by the Sponsor to actively monitor the
to the Sponsor and the Incubator PMC. All Mentors must be members of the
Incubator PMC. A Mentor has
<a href="Roles_and_Responsibilities.html#Mentor">responsibilities</a>
acceptance of a candidate project, the assigned Mentors shall be given
incubation process. This is to allow the Mentors to perform their
the repository, the Mentor must earn them as would any other
potential new committer. In some cases, the Mentor may be part of the

> 	--- Noel
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Craig Russell

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