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From "William A. Rowe, Jr." <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Change "Mentor" to "Mentors" in Incubator Policy
Date Mon, 21 May 2007 06:26:51 GMT
Craig L Russell wrote:
> Please review the changes in
> and vote to accept

Just an FYI - I haven't followed the jira flow terribly well, mostly because
it takes an order of magnitude longer in time to parse a Jira incident rather
than approve a patch posted to the list.  If you could at least attach the
patch delta (and let folks review the full html via the Incubator incident)
I'd have cycles to be much more involved.  Anywhos...

Of process_description --- In general (and this doesn't owe entirely to your
patch - the language was already present) --- the first section of the patched
document strikes me as casting an overly negative view of the Incubator PMC.

It isn't "us v.s. them" - the entire Incubator PMC exists to help, not hinder
the projects.  Sure we have to take adverse action, but only from projects
which aren't following ASF process, or simply 'don't work out'.  And in that
case, it's not the mentors, the champion or the IPMC that is at issue, it's
the project itself.

I'm also very confused here - "The Mentors are members
of the Incubator PMC, and report to both the PMC and the Sponsor
about your overall health and suitability for eventual inclusion
within the Apache Community"

AIUI the Mentor answers to the Incubator PMC, and furthers the PROJECT,
not the Sponsor.

I think that is the gist of my objections to Martijin's comment...

  Mentors represent the Sponsor to actively monitor the podling, guide the
  podling in the Apache Way, and report its status to the Sponsor and the
  Incubator PMC. All Mentors must be members of the Incubator PMC. A Mentor has
  responsibilities toward the Incubator PMC, the Sponsor, and the community of
  the assigned Podling.

That's wrong IMHO.  To say the 'Sponsor' is a special class once the project
is incubating is to create two classes, a "Sponsor" and a "Contributor" (e.g.
committer, PPMC member, what have you).  I don't believe we want the extra
layer of privilege/esteem/direction/control/what have you.

As a mentor, I'm representing the IPMC.   I'm equally mentoring and helping
out EACH committer (and prospective committer) on a podling who want to learn
and understand how to operate their project in the Apache ecosystem.

Once a project is incubating, I don't think the Sponsor designation makes
sense anymore if we are creating a meritocracy of *equals*.

Just my 2c - which has nothing to do with the gist of -your- patch :)


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