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From Craig L Russell <Craig.Russ...@Sun.COM>
Subject PPMC guidance on new committers
Date Wed, 30 May 2007 12:35:34 GMT
Having seen this identical discussion at least half a dozen times,  
I've committed changes to the guides/ppmc document removing the  
distracting (P) from the discussion on new committers.

The new text says

Only votes cast by Incubator PMC members are binding. If the vote is  
positive, and the contributor accepts the responsibility of a  
committer for the project, the contributor formally becomes an Apache  
committer. An Incubator PMC member should then follow the documented  
procedures to complete the process, and CC both the Incubator PMC and  
the PPMC when sending the necessary e-mails to root.

I included the redundant "Incubator" in "Incubator PMC" simply to  
reinforce Noel's comment that PMC means Incubator PMC.


On May 29, 2007, at 8:49 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:

> Yoav Shapira wrote:
>> I voted +0, not having had time to review the proposed committer's
>> contributions.
> +1 != +0
>> I always thought (and the documentation at
>> says PPMC votes are
>> binding.
> It says (P), and the (P) clearly does not belong.  Notice that  
> elsewhere it
> properly says PPMC, with no (), and the places that are wrong were  
> PMC to
> which someone added (P).  Likewise "IPMC" should simply be PMC.   
> There is
> only one PMC: the Incubator PMC.
> I don't know how to say this more clearly.  The PPMC is not a  
> recognized
> entity in the ASF Bylaws.  The PMC is the legal entity, and only  
> PMC votes
> count in any ASF project.  PPMC members should still vote, as can  
> other
> members of the community, but as a legal matter, only PMC votes are  
> binding.
> This is not Incubator policy, it is how the ASF works.
> It is the same in Jakarta, for example, where any Jakarta Committer  
> who
> isn't on the PMC can vote, but only Jakarta PMC votes count.  For  
> years
> people didn't understand this, but please understand that Jakarta  
> is the
> source of many of the wrong and bad practices in ASF projects that  
> didn't go
> through either the HTTP Server project or the Incubator.
>> the documentation link above is out of date.
> It was never "in date".  It is wrong, regardless of date.
> 	--- Noel
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Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System
408 276-5638
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!

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