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From "William A. Rowe, Jr." <>
Subject Re: Mentors and members (was: Re: Mentors On IPMC [WAS Re: [Vote] RCFproposal (was: [Proposal] RCF - a rich component library for JSF)])
Date Mon, 09 Apr 2007 19:54:05 GMT
Ted Husted wrote:
> As to a podling proposal, I would suggest that we expect all Mentors
> be ASF Members or IPMC Members. If someone would like to be a Mentor
> but is not already a ASF Member, we could always elect that person to
> the IPMC first, and then accept the proposal.

Keep in mind ASF Members are accepted into the iPMC by an ack, without
objections.  Non-ASF members, although very helpful to the management
of the incubator, are accepted through the usual meritocracy you see
at every ASF project.  (In the case of ASF Members they already passed
the 'merit' part of the meritocracy, as iPMC is a foundation-wide project
managing the goal of 'entry' to the foundation for new efforts.)

With 20/20 hindsight, I'm becoming much more loathe to accept non-members
as mentors.  (As new podling contributors? Certainly! There is a low bar
to participate in most new efforts.)  But the mentorship role is very
specific, and critical in guiding new efforts to ensure their success.
That's why I'm continuing to strongly favor no-less-than-three mentors
and ASF members-as-mentors.

When I say 20/20, I'm not suggesting to disrupt any incubating project.
I'd also evaluate 'why non-ASF person Joe should be this effort's mentor'
statements on a case-by-case basis.  But the typical case indicates to
me a few possibilities, 1. not enough member involvement to have three
per podling, 2. too many incubating podlings at the same time to continue
effective oversight of them all, 3. would Joe be trying to inject hisself
into podling X without measurable podling X merit, and finally 4. has the
ASF overlooked nominating Joe for ASF Membership?

ASF members -do- have additional insights from private forums, and the
ability to oversee most of the private forums at the ASF.  This means
they can (and do) go back to the archives to look back at how a specific
issue (people issues, company issues, legal issues) were addressed in
similar cases to help guide a podling away from trouble.  They also have
made their mark on the Foundation (which is why they are members).  That
gives me a bit of reassurance that our mentors have less to prove, and
can help guide the project from 10,000 feet rather than in the trenches,
where egos can get in the way.

That said, there are dozens of things our iPMC members do to help the
incubator, aside from mentoring.  Our non-ASF member iPMC folks are all
terrific illustrations of this.

If you can give me some counter examples of why non ASF member mentorship
is a positive thing, I'd certainly consider those.



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