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From "Davanum Srinivas" <>
Subject Re: Killing the incubator m2 repository
Date Fri, 16 Mar 2007 16:49:22 GMT
Please see below:

On 3/16/07, Guillaume Nodet <> wrote:
> Here they are:
> Just a few notes:
>   We have somewhat managed to lower the problems which were caused
> mainly by the examples
>    shipped in ServiceMix distribution that did not include the
> incubating repository: this means that
>   users could not even use our examples out of the box :-(

[DIMS] QA issue :( all of run into into it all the time

>   While I think ServiceMix is known as being in incubator at the ASF
> (the distribution, main dir and
>    all jars have incubator in their name, in addition to the incubator
> logo on the web site, disclaimers,
>    etc ...), i have exchanged mails from people who do not understand
> what incubator is.  They are really
>    thinking it is a sandbox for non mature projects (i don't say
> community here): they are referring to code,
>    so that it is clear that they don't get what the incubator is about.

[DIMS] Here's where we need to educate folks on what incubator means
and why they need to take extra steps. They need to be aware that a
project may not graduate. This is exactly why we need the end users to
understand what they are doing.

>   Usually, when you use maven to reference a project, you know this
> project, so that it seems quite
>    unnecessary to force people to add the incubating repo in their pom,
> as they already know that the
>    project is in incubation (even if they don't understand what it
> means, but this is another problem).

If folks are trigger happy because their stuff just works, they won't
know what incubation means. right?

>   For people who already understand maven, this is not a problem.  For
> beginners, it is quite a problem
>    to understand why this does not work.  Some may post a mail to the
> mailing list, but how many did not
>    and gave up ?

Did you guys end up adding an explicit wiki page for beginners? say a
Quick Start guide?

> While the incubator is a good idea, it seems that it is more difficult
> to build a community inside the incubator
> than outside, because of all the existing rules.  And remember that the
> release early, release often mantra can
> not be applied on podlings, given the pain to release a project in
> incubation.

We can get rid of the rules, then there is no there? we
might as well shutdown incubator and just use the ipclearance process
for everything. then no one has to suffer. right?

> Cheers,
> Guillaume Nodet
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> > Sorry, i lost you. this whole "we need podling artifacts in central
> > repo" because right now you are putting our user through a meat
> > grinder has no basis in fact. Am asking for JIRA issues, email threads
> > that show that this is indeed a serious issue and not just a made up
> > issue. Show me the evidence is what i am asking.
> >
> > thanks,
> > dims
> >
> > On 3/16/07, Jochen Wiedmann <> wrote:
> >> On 3/16/07, Davanum Srinivas <> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Please see #1 item here:
> >> >
> >>
> >> Did you read #5 as well? It contradicts your point.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Emacs 22 will support MacOS and CygWin. It is not yet decided, whether
> >> these will be used to run Emacs or the other way round.
> >>
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Davanum Srinivas :: :: Oxygen for Web Services Developers

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