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From "Gwyn Evans" <>
Subject Re: wikis
Date Thu, 09 Nov 2006 18:49:27 GMT
On 09/11/06, Davanum Srinivas <> wrote:
> Eelco,
> Here's the background: The current set of volunteers dealing with
> infra always pushed back on a confluence install. *But* a very vocal
> group demanded that it be installed and promised to maintain it. But
> when the time comes, they are not there. So who is at fault?
> All infra folks come from different backgrounds and have different
> capabilities and have different amounts of times to spend on
> problem(s).
> I guess, we should put up a disclaimer in incubator process document
> saying "If you bring your project here, you may have to help with ugly
> infra stuff" and may be another item in the incubator graduation check
> list saying "is anyone from this project helping with infra", if not
> give them the boot!

Well, the issue is that there doesn't actually appears to be any way
in which a new member /can/ help in any significant way, as it appears
the existing members are too busy with their existing problems to do
reasonably expect them to take on the additional work involved in
getting new members up to speed...

> -- dims
> On 11/9/06, Eelco Hillenius <> wrote:
> > On 11/9/06, Davanum Srinivas <> wrote:
> > > Please turn your rant into something constructive. join the infra
> > > mailing list and help out where you can.
> >
> > I don't think that's the point though. Maybe it sounded a bit rough,
> > but I agree with Igor that a remark like 'If the cwiki maintainers
> > want to fix those things, they'll get fixed.' doesn't give a lot of
> > confidence that Apache as an organization takes the responsibility one
> > would expect from an organization with it's stature. We all now it's
> > all about volunteers and stuff, but infrastructure is a pretty
> > important part of Apache (not to say core business) isn't it?
> >
> > We (Wicket) tell our users to provide patches and get active all the
> > time, but at the same time we acknowledge that once people choose
> > Wicket for their development, it is our responsibility that the
> > framework doesn't get them into a load of trouble. With other words,
> > we *will* fix important bugs within a few days max.
> >
> > I know bitching from our side is easy, but so using the argument that
> > Apache is a voluntary organization. We are ready to help out too, but
> > obviously getting active in the infrastructure group was not our
> > reason to join ASF.
> >
> > Eelco
> >
> --
> Davanum Srinivas : (Oxygen for Web Service Developers)
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