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From "Garrett Rooney" <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] incubator voting process
Date Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:06:34 GMT
On 11/10/06, Sam Ruby <> wrote:
> There seems to be a persistent delusion that general@incubator.apache.or
> is where incubation happens.  The reality is that all the real
> incubating happens on the PPMC private and dev lists.
> We can correct this in one of two ways: recognize what actually is
> happening, or make what we say is happening actually work.
> If we go the first route, then we should treat this list as an
> announcements list.  Results of votes for releases and graduation are
> posted here, and incubator PMC members will be given 72 hours to raise
> an issue.
> If we go the second route, then we need to set the expectation that most
> PMC members participate in most votes.

I think it's unrealistic to expect that the majority of the members of
the incubator PMC will be involved in most votes.  I mean heck, I've
rarely seen the majority of PMC members of any project be involved in
ANY release vote, let alone in a situation like the incubator where
many PMC members have little personal interest in the majority of the

As far as I can tell, most people who are on the incubator PMC joined
so they could help to shepherd a specific project through the process
by serving as a mentor.  They don't have the time or the inclination
to police the releases of each and every project in incubation, and
requiring them to do so seems like a great way to just get them to say
the hell with it and leave the PMC entirely, which doesn't solve
anything.  I mean before at least they were helping to police the
releases of at least the podling they were involved in, which is
better than nothing.

Honestly though, if podlings are having trouble getting people on the
PMC to review and vote on their releases I wonder if that says
something in and of itself.

I mean at the very least I would expect to see +1 votes from the
project mentors as soon as the vote thread starts on
general@incubator, since at least in theory if there was anything that
would keep them from voting +1 they would have raised it on the
project's dev list before it got anywhere near asking for the
incubator's blessing.  Right there that's at least one or two votes,
if the project has trouble getting the remaining votes, well, maybe
that says something about the level of interest in the rest of the
foundation about the project itself.  If we can't get three people on
the incubator PMC motivated enough to say "yes, this release looks
legally and procedurally sound" then maybe we shouldn't have the
project at the ASF at all.

(Note, please don't take this as me pointing at any particular project
and saying "nobody cares about your stuff, take a hike", I'm not
interested in having that argument right now, but I am interested in
the bigger picture.)


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