incubator-general mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From "Henri Yandell" <>
Subject Re: Top Reason to join the ASF (or not)
Date Fri, 10 Nov 2006 20:22:16 GMT
On 11/10/06, Eelco Hillenius <> wrote:
> > Top three reasons why a project should join the ASF
> >
> > 1. A development community shares our core values of collaboration,
> > transparency, and responsiblity.
> Yes. But a project hosted at say Sourceforge can share those values
> equally (or sometimes even better imo, as they don't have to cope with
> politics). So while this is a nice extra reason to join, there is no
> tangible value in it (neither of both parties really 'get' something
> out of it).

Agreed. This is a case of X not equalling NOT NOT X. The real bit here is:

"A development community should NOT join if they do not share our core
values of ...."

> > 2. A development communtity wants to help manage and oversee the Foundation.
> As in: a career move or plain idealism? ;) I mean, caring about ASF
> (and having been using it's projects almost since it's start, I do!)
> is a strange way to try to get a specific project to incubate. The
> issue that you care about ASF and want to play a role helping out, and
> the issue that you want a certain project to be part of ASF are imho
> different things.

This one does seem self-defining. Possibly true in the case of a
project that is heavily dependent on Foundation projects already -
mod_foobah etc.

> > 3. A development community wants to donate its source code and
> > documentation to the Foundation, to help ensure that a product
> > survives the interest of its original creators
> That's a good reason, but again, sourceforge ensures this too in that
> it guarantees the history etc will be available. ASF gives no real
> guarantee for a developer community that the project will be supported
> (development, answers on the mailing lists, etc).

Less a support issue and more an IP issue. If original author of XXX
vanishes, then in a sourceforge project you are very constrained by
what you can do with it. With an ASF project, the ASF itself needs to
dissapear for you to suffer the same constraints.

> > Top three reasons why a project should *NOT* join the ASF
> >
> > 1. Visibility or brand recognition

And yet it seems very attractive. Visibility makes it a lot easier for
communities to grow. Maybe not for a SourceForge success story, but
definitely for smaller projects. Brand recognition the same.

> > 2. Technical infrastructure

Googleforge is limited. Sourceforge has a bad QoS record and I'll
choose JIRA over their issue system any day. is slow (a
friend just got a project approved...after about 3 months) and I
dislike how I have to log in to do a lot of things there. tigris is
domain-focused. I don't know of opensymphony/objectweb/codehaus
incubators, they're more word of mouth I think.

If I need to share infra, Apache is high on the list. Instead of
asking "Why would someone come to Apache?", we could ask "Why does
Apache exist?". Shared resources would seem to be one of those

> > 3. Less responsiblity

Another reason to come here. We have shared legal responsibility (or
at least it's perceived that way); if I'm on the up and up and I do
something here, it's not just me being sued.


You haven't mentioned legal process. One of the things with the brand
recognition is that people have more trust in our attention to detail
on things they deem a risk. Legal being a big one. "Come to Apache...
learn in the Incubator...have CEOs be happier using your product."

Another - access to a pool of developers. As well as more visibility,
you have much better visibility within Apache committers. That's like
a directed spam list rather than flailing around having lots of failed

Lastly - you and your committers become a part of the Apache space and
have simpler access to the projects at Apache because you're no longer
a stranger. There's an increased level of trust.


To unsubscribe, e-mail:
For additional commands, e-mail:

View raw message