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From "Henri Yandell" <>
Subject Re: wikis
Date Thu, 09 Nov 2006 20:01:21 GMT
On 11/9/06, Don Brown <> wrote:
> What exactly makes something a part of the "official" ASF
> infrastructure?  I thought it was that a member of Infrastructure had
> volunteered to maintain it, and if that's the case, Confluence is
> indeed a part of the "official" ASF infrastructure since I, as a
> member of ASF and Infrastructure, have volunteered to maintain it.

Utterly +1, cwiki/confluence is a part of infra afaict.

Personally, I think it should be on Nagios and on the machine/services
pages. From what people are saying it needs to be on Nagios more so
than other things :)

> From my perspective, the problem is that the infrastructure team only
> supports tools that they themselves use.  What a project wants to use
> something different, they are on their own.  Therefore the solution to
> that is to have volunteers who are familiar with the new tools join
> Infrastructure and help out.  Struts, and a lot of other ASF projects,
> have found Confluence to be a very helpful tool, so seeing that no one
> was really maintaining the Confluence instance, I volunteered to keep
> it up.  Infrastructure is always looking for volunteers, so get
> involved and make it happen.

There are a slew of problems *cf: the drafted email I didn't send

You have to be a member to really help out in infra - because we tie
trust in the services used by a large number of people to our general
core trust. If you authored the tool, then the trust is also likely to
be there - thus we have people who show up on the #asfinfra irc
channel and infrastructure@ list who are not asf members but their
expertise exhibits trust.

Another big problem is that we have a different demographic - those of
us of a Java ilk are much more likely to be developers and not admins.
I volunteer to help out on things from time to time in infra (mostly
JIRA nowadays), but I don't rate my admin skills to the level of the
httpd or svn guys.

I do wish we'd stop answering complaints with "volunteer to help".
People can't do much unless they're members (which is shame, as
helping out in infra is a good way to show the kinds of qualities many
are looking for in members - namely caring about the whole and not
just their own project). Chicken...egg...splat. All we do is drive
people to the list where they then feel helpless.

Of course I also wish that those volunteering in infra would be more
open to new things, and that people requesting services wouldn't run
off to a machine of their choice to set something up there rather than
trying to work out a common solution. The former is insular and
doesn't solve problems, the latter is selfish. I don't get what I wish
for... my fortune cookie yesterday was "Your dearest wish will come
true", and I'm pretty sure it didn't. I did get Red Dwarf seasons 5-8
- that was cool, so maybe I just don't grok my dearest wishes.

*blathers away into insignificance*


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