On 9/13/06, Alex Karasulu wrote: > J Aaron Farr wrote: > > On 9/13/06, Justin Erenkrantz wrote: > >> On 9/12/06, Niclas Hedhman wrote: > >> > As Leo pointed out, 'codebase quality' is not a graduation criteria. > >> And > >> > (hopefully) with Upayvira as the initial PMC Chair, I am not worried > >> that the > >> > PMC will overlook release requirements. If ASF Members feel that to > >> be a > >> > concern, they are both free to monitor and participate in the PMC work. > >> > >> My concern has nothing to do with 'codebase quality', but asking for a > >> demonstration that the Felix community understands how to conduct a > >> release that meets the ASF's criteria. > >> > >> If the community produces a release that is perfect on first shot, > >> great - they're truly ready to graduate. If not, well, then, they'll > >> learn from those mistakes and once they can produce a release that > >> meets our criteria, then they'll be ready to graduate. > >> > >> Remember that a major task for a TLP is conducting a release. > >> Therefore, it's reasonable for the Incubator PMC to ask for proof that > >> they will execute that task successfully rather than taking it on > >> blind faith. -- justin > > > > And I'm fine with that. I think it's a good idea for Incubating > > projects to do at least one release before graduating. > > > > My concerns are: > > > > 1) The policy regarding podling releases has never been explicit and > > always been conflicting the formal policy (http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases) isn't too bad (though i have tidied up the verbage surrounding it recently). the sentiment towards releases has definitely changed as we've leant more about the process. the PMC is now agnostic rather than antagonistics. > Originally we (the mentors) and even Noel had told Felix not to worry > about a release within the incubator: > > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-felix-dev/200604.mbox/%3cNBBBJGEAGJAKLIDBKJOPAEIPHMAC.noel@devtech.com%3e > > So both mentors and the Incubator PMC Chair told these folks that a > release was not the primary objective for graduation. We explicitly > told them *NOT* to worry about a release until after graduation. And > graduation, we thought, was right around the corner. i agree that releases should not be a primary objective for graduation. IMO the question is not about performing a release (which is high ceremony) but about knowing how to perform a release that complies with ASF policy. since we started checking releases in detail, it's become clear that most projects struggle to create a compliant release at the first attempt. nearly every first attempt checked turns out not be compliant. i didn't expect this (since the rules are really pretty simple). > > 2) Let's not (again) fall into the trap of changing the requirements > > of graduation (or entry for that matter) on a vote thread > > > > So could we move these discussions to a new thread? > > Yeah good idea. Let's start off by discussing whether we make at least > one incubator release a requirement for graduation? I think if we're > going to hold it as a blocker before graduation we must make it a rule > to be absolutely clear. i do not think that having made a release should be a requirement; personally speaking, i would not support the gradudation any project that has not demonstrated that they understand the apache releases policy. doing this is much easier and quicker than creating a proper release. just nominate a release manager and post a compliant example to the people.apache.org webspace using the current code base so that it can be checked. - robert --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org