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From "robert burrell donkin" <>
Subject Re: Podling Release Requirement (WAS: Re: [VOTE] Graduate Felix to TLP status)
Date Wed, 13 Sep 2006 17:24:19 GMT
On 9/13/06, Alex Karasulu <> wrote:
> J Aaron Farr wrote:
> > On 9/13/06, Justin Erenkrantz <> wrote:
> >> On 9/12/06, Niclas Hedhman <> wrote:
> >> > As Leo pointed out, 'codebase quality' is not a graduation criteria.
> >> And
> >> > (hopefully) with Upayvira as the initial PMC Chair, I am not worried
> >> that the
> >> > PMC will overlook release requirements. If ASF Members feel that to
> >> be a
> >> > concern, they are both free to monitor and participate in the PMC work.
> >>
> >> My concern has nothing to do with 'codebase quality', but asking for a
> >> demonstration that the Felix community understands how to conduct a
> >> release that meets the ASF's criteria.
> >>
> >> If the community produces a release that is perfect on first shot,
> >> great - they're truly ready to graduate.  If not, well, then, they'll
> >> learn from those mistakes and once they can produce a release that
> >> meets our criteria, then they'll be ready to graduate.
> >>
> >> Remember that a major task for a TLP is conducting a release.
> >> Therefore, it's reasonable for the Incubator PMC to ask for proof that
> >> they will execute that task successfully rather than taking it on
> >> blind faith.  -- justin
> >
> > And I'm fine with that.  I think it's a good idea for Incubating
> > projects to do at least one release before graduating.
> >
> > My concerns are:
> >
> > 1) The policy regarding podling releases has never been explicit and
> > always been conflicting

the formal policy
isn't too bad (though i have tidied up the verbage surrounding it

the sentiment towards releases has definitely changed as we've leant
more about the process. the PMC is now agnostic rather than

> Originally we (the mentors) and even Noel had told Felix not to worry
> about a release within the incubator:
> So both mentors and the Incubator PMC Chair told these folks that a
> release was not the primary objective for graduation.  We explicitly
> told them *NOT* to worry about a release until after graduation.  And
> graduation, we thought, was right around the corner.

i agree that releases should not be a primary objective for graduation.

IMO the question is not about performing a release (which is high
ceremony) but about  knowing how to perform a release that complies
with ASF policy.

since we started checking releases in detail, it's become clear that
most projects struggle to create a compliant release at the first
attempt. nearly every first attempt checked turns out not be
compliant. i didn't expect this (since the rules are really pretty

> > 2) Let's not (again) fall into the trap of changing the requirements
> > of graduation (or entry for that matter) on a vote thread
> >
> > So could we move these discussions to a new thread?
> Yeah good idea.  Let's start off by discussing whether we make at least
> one incubator release a requirement for graduation?  I think if we're
> going to hold it as a blocker before graduation we must make it a rule
> to be absolutely clear.

i do not think that having made a release should be a requirement;

personally speaking, i would not support the gradudation any project
that has not demonstrated that they understand the apache releases
policy. doing this is much easier and quicker than creating a proper
release. just nominate a release manager and post a compliant example
to the webspace using the current code base so that
it can be checked.

- robert

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