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From "Cliff Schmidt" <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Accept Glasgow into Incubator
Date Sat, 05 Aug 2006 03:50:48 GMT
On 8/4/06, Garrett Rooney <> wrote:
> On 8/4/06, Cliff Schmidt <> wrote:
> > nor would I, as a mentor, ever allow any project to move through
> > incubation without actively working to create such a community.
> I have no doubt that this is the case, and if I said anything that
> implies otherwise I'm sorry.  I have a great deal of faith in Cliff as
> a mentor, and I trust him to do the right thing with regard to
> building communities at the ASF.

Oh I definitely didn't take any offense, but I appreciate your comment.

My point was just to remind folks that these proposals come with
mentors who are there to ensure the critical community-building aspect
(which was the concern of yours I was responding to) of the project
gets the needed attention...or the project will eventually get booted
out.  I would hate to ever be associated with a project that failed
incubation, but I have no problem with voting to kick out a project
that isn't trying to make things work.

I think the difference in our opinions may come down to trust in the
incubation process.  We've firmly established over the years that we
want to have a relatively low bar for entry into incubation (usually
some sort of initial code, committers to go with it, and an
understanding and willingness to  adopt/apply our community
principles).  This approach is supposed to welcome all those who want
to try to make this work with us.  We've never required that the
project is already operating like an Apache project; instead, we
ensure they are doing so before graduation.  And, if it's not working
out, we "retire" the project before it ever gets the full ASF

I only agreed to mentor this project after talking to, literally,
every single committer to make sure they understood how we do things,
that they were willing to commit to the required community work, and
that they understood that people like me will intervene if things
aren't going well.  I do this, because, otherwise, I'd just be setting
myself up for a really frustrating 6-24 months.

I completely respect your opinion, but I don't think that a proposal
thread is a representative environment for determining the expected
degree of transparency in future development work, nor do I think that
the spec this project wants to implement is less open than several
others being implemented at Apache today (including ones at "official"
standards orgs)...but you'll have to read my very long post if you
care to know more of my thoughts on that:


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