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From "robert burrell donkin" <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] [UPDATE] CeltiXfire Project Proposal
Date Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:02:43 GMT
On 7/18/06, Craig L Russell <> wrote:
> On Jul 18, 2006, at 1:32 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > Jim Jagielski wrote:
> >
> >> Mladen Turk wrote:
> >>> since some members thinks that insulting our fellows
> >>> is actually a great joke, and something one should
> >>> be proud off, I'm fine.
> >
> >> Well, let me just say that once a project is within
> >> the incubator, and someone is on the PPMC, things
> >> become very different.
> >
> > William Rowe's response to him fairly well summed up the issue(s).
> > I have
> > relatively little concern regarding castigating projects for
> > failings, even
> > if the criticism could be expressed more constructively than
> > acerbically.
> > BUT we do not accept personal attacks, and will not tolerate them on
> > someone's blog anymore than on a mailing list.
> To get very specific, I understand that posting insults on Apache
> mailing lists is forbidden.

i'm not sure that forbidden is quite the right word: perhaps something more
like socially unacceptable and extremely counter-productive would be closer
to the truth. the right atmosphere on list is really important but it's
often proved easier to achieve this by setting a good example than by being
drawn into threats.

But are you also saying that we expect him to:
> no longer post insults regarding any topic on bileblog, or
> no longer post insults regarding any Apache project on bileblog, or

no longer post insults regarding any Apache committer on bileblog, or
> something else?
> In other words, what limitations on his freedom of speech are we
> requiring?

i'm not sure that there is enough consensus to use the collective. there
seems very much a plurality of opinions.

personally speaking, i'm happy to judge him by his posts on list.

now hani's becoming a somewhat important and certainly famous figure in the
java ecosystem i hope that he'd start to realize that some people are hurt
by his offensive posts and lay off the personal stuff with those folks who
don't appreciate his humour.

- robert

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