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From "Noel J. Bergman" <>
Subject RE: Mentors - the more, the merrier? [WAS Re: [VOTE] Accept Heraldry into the Incubator]
Date Fri, 14 Jul 2006 02:23:30 GMT
Ted Leung wrote:

> I don't know that I agree completely with you about the role of PMC
> Chairs - sometimes a good PMC chair helps a project quite a bit....

As the Chair?  Or as a recognized leader by his or her peers based upon the
weight of experience and ideas, rather than the official role?  I'm banking
on the latter.

> > Projects should not be trained to rely upon an individual; they
> > should be trained to act collaboratively.

> This is a very convincing argument to me, especially since people
> without open source experience are already trained to look for who's
> in charge.

In fact, one long-time PMC Chair (no longer one) has opined that a PMC Chair
should not participate in discussions because whenever the PMC Chair
participates, it is the role that is perceived as participating, rather than
the individual.

Other people have commented that they realize that they are growing within
the ASF when they are comfortable disagreeing with one of the "big-names",
and some of the same "big-names" have commented that they respect people
more when they do just that, because so few people do.

I, obviously, disagree with the idea that a PMC Chair should be a
non-participant, but I do agree that helping to train people to perceive
people and their ideas, not the roles they hold (or the reputation of their
name), is an important part of what we should be doing.  Everyone should
feel that they have as much right to speak up as anyone else, and that what
matters in the end are the ideas that we bring forth, and our collorative
actions to bring them to fruition.  Not who we are, nor what (legal) role we

> Count me as mulling it over some more.

In an ironic riposte regarding using IRC, a number of us had this discussion
on IRC in mid-March.  I could ask permission from the participants to post
the ~50KB log of that discussion from a members only channel, but instead I
will commit to redacting the overall content in a fashion suitable for
posting here.  This proves, once again, that if we don't document our
history, we are condemned to repeat it.  :-)

	--- Noel

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