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From "Noel J. Bergman" <>
Subject RE: Release votes
Date Fri, 02 Jun 2006 14:17:46 GMT
Leo Simons wrote:

> People are doing stuff, trying to comply with all kinds of policies,
> and then instead of self-governing they have to go ask permission.

> When you need to ask for it, you're not self-governing.

Self-governance is a learned behavior, and one of the things that the
Incubator is supposed to help them learn, but it does have to be learned,
and that takes practice and repetition.

> If we're to have self-governing communities we need to have them be
> like that while incubating. Self-governance is grown, not "bolted on"
> after graduation.

Hence the recommendation to have at least 3 Mentors per project, so that the
PPMC can be more self-governing, and have necessary guidance.  However, as
we have seen, it is still important to have the rest of the Incubator PMC
involved in key decisions.

> seemingly a significant amount of the time, there actually is
> something that has to change before the incubator PMC will
> actually "give permission".

Releases, in specific, have been problemmatic --- as I believe you recognize
by your use of the adjective on the message subject --- but people *are*
learning what is required.

> All these little rules and policies and practices (written or
> unwritten) seem like they could be somehow codified.

Cliff has been doing so.  Frankly, I suspect that many ASF projects need to
clean up their releases to conform with the currently solidifying ASF-wide
guidelines, but the Incubator PMC is more aware of them, and more diligent
in applying them.

A checklist, with illustrating examples, added to a release document would
probably be helpful to ensuring that when a release comes up for vote, there
are fewer -1s cast.

> Let's write a piece of software to do the auditing for us.

How do you propose to do this?  How do you propose to audit the code and
know which pieces of code require which license and whether or not that
license is conforming, and properly documented?  Not saying that this can't
be done, but am asking how you propose to do it.

	--- Noel

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