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From Dan Diephouse <>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] CeltiXfire Project
Date Wed, 21 Jun 2006 15:04:07 GMT
Hi Dims,

Comments inline.

Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Folks,
> I don't even know where to start. 32 people? wow!
Keep in mind we're merging two distinct communties, its additive. If you 
have ideas on how to create a somewhat smaller list without presupposing 
that a person won't contribute, I'm all ears.
> I was looking for discussions on the celtix-dev@ [1] on xfire-dev@ [2]
> and was unpleasantly surprised when i found nothing. I wanted to get
> some background on what the integration points are between the 2
> engines and did not find any. In fact there was no mention of Celtix
> on the xfire list and vice versa. Forget about any discussions between
> the "individuals" that compose the community about moving to Apache :(
Even at Apache, not all discussions are public. Think of the discussion 
as having occurred on a PMC list. I would also like to add that one of 
the reasons for coming to Apache is to create a good place for 
discussions going forward. Hopefully we can have some good on the list 
discussions on how the merge will look provided we get accepted.
> Please don't call it a framework if things are not pluggable. Basic
> example, is it possible to switch the soap engine from whatever it is
> (or will be!) to Axis2. FWIW, it is a complete and total overlap of
> things already in progress in various existing Apache projects.
Is XFire not pluggable because it doesn't have an Axis2 plugin? That 
seems like an odd standard of criteria for me. (Although it is 
technically possible to intercept the message and forward it to Axis2, 
and I don't really see why that'd be technically impossible after the 
merge either).

Here's a question: Why would there be blossoming XFire and Celtix 
communities if Axis2 was the end all be all of soap/web services? Its a 
complicated answer and to conclude that things are a complete overlap is 
a gross over simplification of the matter.
> Best of luck to you all!!
> thanks,
> dims
> [1]
> [2]
> On 6/20/06, Sakala, Adinarayana <> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> Below is a project proposal for incubation consideration.
>> The project welcomes your feedback as well as interest in involvement.
>> This proposal is also located online at 
>> == CeltiXfire Proposal ==
>> Project CeltiXfire is a SOA infrastructure framework focused on 
>> implementation of JCP and web service standards while also providing 
>> extensibility for legacy integration. It is a merge of two matured 
>> open source projects and communities, ObjectWeb Celtix 
>> ( and Codehaus Xfire 
>> ( It will implement the JAX-WS, JAX-WSA, 
>> and JSR-181 standards. Core to this is support for web service 
>> standards like SOAP 1.1, SOAP 1.2, WS-I BasicProfile, WS-Security, 
>> WS-Addressing, WS-RM, and WS-Policy. This project will support 
>> several programming models like JAX-WS, JBI (ServiceMix), SCA 
>> (Tuscany), and CORBA services (Yoko).  We will leverage open source 
>> components wherever possible, for example we intend to use WSS4J for 
>> ws-security from the Apache Web Services project. One goal of this 
>> project is to provide public APIs that match the JSR standards. 
>> Furthermore, the scope of this project is to provide SOA 
>> infrastructure for both modern web services and for legacy systems. 
>> The seed code has been designed to provide a pluggable architecture 
>> to support both XML and non-XML type bindings in combination with any 
>> type of transport. For example, Celtix is in the process of being 
>> extended to provide a CORBA binding as part of the Apache Yoko 
>> project (in incubation). Additional examples of non-XML bindings that 
>> could be supported in the future include fixed length record 
>> bindings, which are critical to integrating mainframe systems into a 
>> SOA. The current infrastructure code is designed for flexible 
>> deployment in a variety of containers including JBI, J2EE, SCA and 
>> servlet containers.
>> == Rationale ==
>> The project is interested in moving to Apache for the following 
>> reasons: To provide Apache-licensed implementations of the relevant 
>> web service JSR standards: JAX-WS, JAX-WSA, JSR-181, and JSR-265 
>> standards and to test those implementations with the applicable JSR 
>> TCKs, to become better integrated with the Geronimo, Harmony, 
>> ServiceMix, Tuscany, Yoko and Apache Web Services communities, and to 
>> build a strong vendor-neutral community that will outlast any one 
>> person's or company's participation.
>> == Meritocracy ==
>> The Codehaus Xfire and ObjectWeb Celtix projects have fostered a 
>> development community based around meritocracy. Many of the 
>> committers already work on other Apache projects and understand the 
>> Apache way. The individuals understand that they are responsible for 
>> the code, and that the community around the project will define the 
>> direction.
>> == Community ==
>> The CeltiXfire Community will bring together two already successful 
>> communities - Xfire and Celtix. Both projects have active users and 
>> contributors on the mailing lists.
>> == Core Developers ==
>> The CeltiXfire project's initial committers include a diverse set of 
>> individuals. Some of the individuals are employed by Envoi Solutions, 
>> IONA, BEA, LogicBlaze and Red Hat, and some are not funded by any 
>> particular employer.
>> == Alignment ==
>> CeltiXfire currently uses and integrates with many Apache projects 
>> but does not have hard dependencies on these (in alphabetical order):
>>  * ActiveMQ is used as the default JMS implementation.
>>  * Continuum: Apache Continuum currently uses XFire for its SOAP 
>> integration.
>>  * Harmony: Harmony is implementing Java 5.0 and requires support for 
>> many of the JSR that CeltiXfire will provide.
>>  * Jakarta Commons HttpClient can be used for the HTTP client transport.
>>  * Geronimo: Celtix already provides Geronimo integration. CeltiXfire 
>> will continue this effort and will be made available so that Geronimo 
>> could use CeltiXfire as its JAX-WS implementation for JEE.
>>  * ServiceMix: Codehaus XFire is currently used within ServiceMix to 
>> provide web service integration. Celtix provides its own JBI 
>> integration for ServiceMix as well, although JBI is an option and not 
>> a requirement for Celtix implementation.
>>  * Maven 2: Celtix and Xfire already provide Maven 2 plug-ins for 
>> invoking the Celtix and Xfire tooling.
>>  * Tuscany: Celtix is already integrated with Tuscany.
>>  * WSS4J: CeltiXfire uses Apache WSS4J for WS-Security support.
>>  * XMLBeans is currently used as one of the data-binding options for 
>> CeltiXfire.
>>  * XmlSchema: CeltiXfire uses XmlSchema for many schema related 
>> functions internally.
>>  * Yoko: Celtix is already integrated with Yoko to provide support 
>> for exposing CORBA services as web services.
>> We are currently evaluating the use of other Apache projects as well 
>> like Woden, Neethi and JaxMe.
>> == Avoiding the Warning Signs ==
>> === Orphaned products ===
>> CeltiXfire is a merging of two successful open source projects, 
>> ObjectWeb Celtix and Codehaus Xfire. Both have active communities and 
>> developers. CeltiXfire provides support for some important 
>> specifications to Java community, we expect that this project will 
>> continue to grow and develop within its own community, and be 
>> embraced by many other open source projects as well.
>> === Inexperience with open source ===
>> The authors of the existing code have extensive experience with open 
>> source already.  The initial list of committers includes 9 Apache 
>> Committers.  They are involved in:
>>  * Apache Continuum
>>  * Apache Geronimo
>>  * Apache ServiceMix
>>  * Apache Tuscany
>>  * Apache Yoko
>> === Homogeneous developers ===
>> The project's initial committers include individuals that are 
>> employed by a diverse set of companies, including Envoi Solutions, 
>> IONA, LogicBlaze, BEA and Red Hat.  About 2/3 of the initial 
>> committers are employed by IONA.  Additionally the project has 
>> several committers whose work is not funded by any particular employer.
>> === Reliance on Salaried Developers ===
>> Many of the developers are salaried, but they are spread out over 
>> several organizations. Several other developers are contributing to 
>> this project without any connection to an employer.
>> === No ties to other Apache products ===
>> Both ObjectWeb Celtix and Codehaus Xfire currently use many Apache 
>> projects. These have been outlined in the "alignment" section.
>> === A fascination with the Apache brand ===
>> While we expect the Apache brand may help attract more contributors, 
>> our interests in starting this project is based on the factors 
>> mentioned in the Rationale section.  However, we will be sensitive to 
>> inadvertent abuse of the Apache brand and will work with the 
>> Incubator PMC and the PRC to ensure the brand policies are respected.
>> === Scope of Subprojects ===
>> No subprojects proposed.
>> == Initial Source ==
>> The Celtix codebase is owned by IONA. It is currently available under 
>> both EPL and LGPL licenses ( The 
>> applicable code will be relicensed under the Apache License 2.0. The 
>> Codehaus Xfire codebase is owned by Envoi Solutions LLC and is 
>> available under an MIT license ( The 
>> applicable code will be relicensed under the Apache Software License 
>> 2.0. The dependencies all have Apache compatible licenses. These 
>> include BSD, CDDL, CPL, MPL and MIT licensed dependencies.
>> == ASF Resources to be Created ==
>>  * Mailing lists
>>    * cxf-dev
>>    * cxf-user
>>    * cxf-commits
>>    * cxf-ppmc
>>  * SVN Repository
>>  * JIRA CeltiXfire (CeltiXfire)
>>  * Official Build Systems
>> == Initial Committers ==
>>  * Adi Sakala
>>  * Dan Diephouse
>>  * Guillaume Nodet
>>  * James Strachan
>>  * David Blevins
>>  * Peter Royal
>>  * Daniel Kulp
>>  * Balaji Ravi
>>  * Conrad O'Dea
>>  * Hani Suileman
>>  * Mika Goekel
>>  * Adam Kramer
>>  * Tomek Sztelak
>>  * Stuart Edmondston
>>  * Bozhong Lin
>>  * Jervis Liu
>>  * Julian Squires
>>  * James Mao
>>  * Jim Ma
>>  * Freeman Fang
>>  * Tom Li
>>  * Willem Jiang
>>  * Andrea Smyth
>>  * Eoghan Glynn
>>  * Debbie Moynihan
>>  * Ajay Paibir
>>  * Ulhas Bhole
>>  * Sean O'Callaghan
>>  * Peter Jones
>>  * Eric Johnson
>>  * Brian Zotter
>>  * Mark Little
>> == Sponsor ==
>> We kindly request the Incubator PMC to accept sponsorship for this 
>> proposal.
>> == Champion ==
>> Jason Van Zyl
>> == Mentors ==
>>  * Jason Van Zyl
>>  * Jim Jagielski
>>  * James Strachan
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Dan Diephouse
Envoi Solutions

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