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From Leo Simons <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve 3.0-M1 release of ServiceMix
Date Fri, 21 Apr 2006 07:24:53 GMT
Hey Dan,

I wrote a long-ish e-mail about all this, but I don't think its going to
help anyone. So I apologize for any and all confusion.


On Fri, Apr 21, 2006 at 01:05:33AM -0400, Dan Diephouse wrote:
> I am really confused by the reaction to this. I don't see any reason to 
> be puzzled or upset.  I don't want to make this a bigger issue than it 
> is, but:
> 1. The project is incubating and this is the first time its done an 
> Apache release. There are a lot of check boxes that need to be checked 
> to make Apache happy. Overlooking a NOTICE file that almost no one looks 
> at doesn't seem like that big of a jump to me.

I can understand why you don't see that, but that viewpoint should change.

> With an M1 release, I 
> think everyone was a bit more worried whether the damn thing worked at 
> all. As we move toward a .0 release things will certainly get more 
> cleaned up.
> 2. Incubating release don't need to conform to Apache policy as far as I 
> understand it. Only to whats outlined in the release section [1]. Thats 
> why Roller can release with LGPL dependencies. So in this light, the 
> NOTICE file shouldn't be a hold up, no? Only -incubator instead of 
> -incubating can.

Using LGPL dependencies is about policy. This is about what is legal.

Besides complying with policy, you need to comply with the law, which
involves complying with the terms and conditions of a variety of licenses.

As an example, ServiceMix redistributes jars under an apache license which
have NOTICEs applying to them. Thus the appropriate attributions *must*
then be kept around (so says the license), so not having notices and stuff
in place means a license breach, which is not at all about policy. Its

As another example, CDDL-licensed things explicitly prohibit getting rid of
*any* legal notices (which is common sense anyway).

Doing illegal stuff can get us and our users sued.

Hope that clarifies things.


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