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From Lance Waterman <>
Subject Re: Let's rewind!!! (Re: [VOTE] accept donation of a business process engine into the ServiceMix project)
Date Tue, 14 Feb 2006 20:06:54 GMT
As one of the Sybase BPEL developers, this certainly sounds reasonable to
me. Perhaps we can start a discussion around what the "bake off" criteria
will look like ( i.e. what BPEL constructs are fully/half/not supported,
what set of unit tests should be supported, etc ... ). As an example; in
looking through the Agila code ( which could have rendered faulty
assumptions ) it appears that the BPEL "Scope" construct is not currently
supported. I rate "Scope" as quite important to have in a BPEL
implementation and its not a simple thing to implement. Likewise, I am sure
there are criteria that the Sybase donated engine does not fully measure


On 2/14/06, Geir Magnusson Jr <> wrote:
> Bill Flood wrote:
> > Geir, approaching Agila was our first avenue.  We looked at what they
> had
> > and I initiated several conversations about donating to that incubator
> > project.
> >
> > We offered a base line upon which to build but there did not seem to be
> any
> > uptake although both committers said they were happy to have us come in
> and
> > provide coding help on what they already had.
> I don't really know.  I wasn't part of that conversation, although I did
> have a few discussions w/ people after this all started.
> I expect that what you just said might have been the problem.  They
> already had a BPEL engine, and it sounds like you were suggesting they
> stop and reboot on your codebase.  After all, they have some users and
> wouldn't want to just drop them.
> > I was a little mystified.
> > Jumping in and bringing their stuff up to where we already were seemed
> > counter productive given the large gap in code maturity and capability
> so we
> > passed.
> >
> > Based on the support we have seen for our contribution from others in
> Apache
> > thus far, I have to believe that our impression wasn't just the result
> of
> > our inherent subjectivity
> >
> > I believe we did approach them in good faith and I'm not sure why there
> was
> > disinterest in our offer via Agila but here we are.  We left the
> previous
> > conversation on good terms.  At this point, my preference would be that
> the
> > Agila folks look at the contribution and see if they want to become part
> of
> > that larger community for this new baseline.  To me, it's not about
> > ownership, it's about critical mass in the community to carry something
> > forward.
> How about making a fresh start then...  If the Agila people are
> interested, put out a call for any and all other implementations of BPEL
> that might be donated and build a larger community, mixing the best of
> anything that is donated to get the best BPEL engine and community we can?
> In the same way that we built Geronimo from "best of breed" J2EE-ish OSS
> projects that are out there, I'm sure we could do a similar thing with
> Maybe do a "bake off" to help find the best codebase, and have the
> community collaborate around that?  (I'm not sure what that would
> entail, actually...)
> Would you be interested in that?
> geir
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