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From Leo Simons <>
Subject Re: Incubator Roles revisited
Date Sun, 19 Feb 2006 11:13:31 GMT
+1 to snipped stuff. You're on the right track.

On Sat, Feb 18, 2006 at 07:15:23PM -0500, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> In addition, despite the "Mentor is a role undertaken by a permanent member
> of the Apache Software Foundation" portion of the description, we have
> previously elected non-Members to the Incubator PMC, and asked them to serve
> as Mentors.
> Following from the idea that a Mentor must be a PMC member, do we have a
> need to require them to be an ASF Member, as per the current document, or
> can we more simply drive the rule from the fact that a Mentor must be a PMC
> member, which is effectively how we have been doing it?  Again, I get back
> to saying that Mentors are PMC Members who are providing active oversight
> and guidance.  Does anyone see any effective difference, since PMC members
> have equal votes, and the only binding ones? 

Not really.

> Other than apmember karma,
> which means access to private information and the ability to contribute on
> restricted infrastructure, what would an ASF Member have that isn't also
> vested in someone whom we have otherwise chosen to vote onto the Incubator
> PMC?

Codified level of trust.

With ASF members, it seems we kind-of feel that its ok to have the PMC membership
be "all but automatic" (these people are pretty much assumed to understand what
direction incubation is going in, usually have prior experience on another PMC, or
whatever it is that creates this 'trust' thing), whereas with other people it is
not so clear. I think its fine to have non-asf-member mentors and non-asf-member
PMC members, but I think that should be a concious vote from the existing PMC
(like with other ASF PMCs) since that is another way to establish enough 'trust'.
Eg the positive vote from the existing PMC here is this 'codified trust'.

Make sense?


The implication here is that you don't get to be a mentor by adding your name to
an incubation proposal unless

 a) you're an ASF member, and/or
 b) you're an incubator PMC member

and we vote on this "people thing" seperately.

Interestingly, these people things are invitation-only for things like
committership and (pmc) membership, whereas with the incubator it seems we're on a
road to invite-one-self kind of thing. Is this concerning? What is going on here?


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