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From Sanjiva Weerawarana <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] accept donation of a business process engine into the ServiceMix project
Date Sat, 04 Feb 2006 01:38:08 GMT
I'm going to remove my original -1 from this thread and vote +1 for it.

My apologies for helping to create this major ruckus. This type of
heated discussion does not help build communities and cross community
interactions that would benefit all of us in many ways. That is
especially so because this has partly become ServiceMix vs. WS .. which
is terrible because that's not what the discussions should be about at
all. In any case, the WS project is BIG at the moment and I'd personally
-1 any proposal to add 20+ more committers to our already overloaded
committer list.

So, if the ServiceMix folks feel that a BPEL engine needs to be near to
their heart, then I'm all for it. I realize that my knowledge of JBI
isn't enough to have a strong position on the technical rationale for it
but am happy to defer to folks likes James, Dan, Aron and others that
obviously do.

I'm not on the Geronimo PMC and so have no part of this vote formally.
When this finds its way into a vote on the Incubator PMC (which I'm on)
I will read the proposal and vote on it; assuming it meets the criteria
of not being code thrown over the wall, etc. etc. I'll be +1.

Good luck folks .. I'll keep an eye on it and look to participate where
possible and appropriate.


On Fri, 2006-02-03 at 14:18 -0800, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
> Cc'ing the incubator list since Dims is no longer on the Geronimo and 
> ServiceMix lists.
> Regards,
> Alan
> On 2/3/2006 2:05 PM, Aaron Mulder wrote:
> >Holy crap!  What a mess this thread is!  I'm not used to being like
> >the cool voice of reason.  :)
> >
> >For my 2 cents, a JBI container without BPEL is a hard sell, so I'd go
> >a long way to see one available for ServiceMix.
> >
> >Based on our Geronimo experience, I suspect it would be easier to
> >build the two together and then spin off a working BPEL engine down
> >the road, rather than call them nominally independent projects but in
> >truth have them so tightly linked during development that you can't
> >realistically use one without the other and there's a lot of fuss
> >about having the latest SNAPSHOT of this not work against HEAD of that
> >and so on.
> >
> >So here's my +1 to include the BPEL donation in ServiceMix, but I
> >won't argue too strenuously if people want to bring it into Geronimo
> >instead (assuming we get the latest Geronimo/ServiceMix integration
> >code from Guillaume!  :)  On the other hand, I think it might be a bit
> >awkward as a standalone project from day 1.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >    Aaron
> >
> >On 2/3/06, Dan Diephouse <> wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>After some thought about this, I will give it a +1.
> >>
> >>We're seeing a lot of overlap lately between the WS-* folks and the J2EE
> >>folks. Like lots of projects lately, I don't think this code donation
> >>fits strictly into one category. And to say that it strictly belongs one
> >>place or another is a mistake.
> >>
> >>I think the Sybase and ServiceMix people have made it clear that they
> >>are dedicated to working on this. I know the ws-* people are stretched
> >>with the many many specs to implement, so from a practical standpoint I
> >>think the ServiceMix location works. Lets closely monitor the community
> >>and see where it goes. At a future date we can readdress the location.
> >>
> >>Regarding other developers and overlapping projects, I would just like
> >>to make it clear that we still definitely welcome other people and their
> >>involvement. Accepting this donation into ServiceMix does not preclude
> >>any involvement with others. If we need to package things different or
> >>provide different interfaces or whatever, its all up for discussion and
> >>patches
> >>
> >>- Dan
> >>
> >>
> >>James Strachan wrote:
> >>    
> >>
> >>>We have received the generous donation of a complete and working BPE
> >>>engine to the ServiceMix project...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>the contributor has offered to donate to Apache & complete the
> >>>necessary software grants & IP clearance and to work with us on
> >>>integrating it into ServiceMix.
> >>>
> >>>For those of you maybe not aware; ServiceMIx is an ESB project defined
> >>>around JBI (JSR 208) the JCP standard API to integration components
> >>>along with being the standard container model for a BPE. ServiceMix
> >>>already has the JBI container and has a suite of JBI integration
> >>>components already for smart routing, transformation, rules,
> >>>scripting, auditing etc...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>So it makes complete sense to add a BPE to that component suite. Note
> >>>that since ServiceMix already has integration components to Apache
> >>>Axis and Apache Tuscany, the integration of the BPE with ServiceMix
> >>>should benefit those projects too (with Apache Synapse possibly too
> >>>via the Axis integration - though we need to work on that one a bit).
> >>>
> >>>Also having a BPE fully integrated into Geronimo via the JBI container
> >>>would mean that we could start to orchestrate pretty much everything
> >>>in the Geronimo stack! I'm certainly very excited by this move...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>[ ] +1 accept the donation into the ServiceMix incubator project
> >>>[ ] 0  don't mind either way
> >>>[ ] -1 I object because: .......
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Here's my +1
> >>>
> >>>James
> >>>-------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>--
> >>Dan Diephouse
> >>Envoi Solutions LLC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>    
> >>

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